Ronia
Hi Minderwiz, interesting discussion! Here is the November 7 chart: http://tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=4850187&postcount=78 . I continue to think that Jupiter in 8th house, being the job (as I thought there would be only one then) signified the job that would not work as it was not acceptable. If you read our thoughts, we discussed it.
We'll have to elave the collection argument for now as I stick to my belief that Lily would have allowed marriage co-significators. It's not so much about him ignoring his own rules than it is about him not always taking the time to actually consider every existing possibility and include it, and then bam! he uses it. I will, in fact, embark on a research journey over the internet and try to find marriage charts where collection was allowed for co-significators. Such should be available and expecially in cultures where arranged marriages or using a matchmaker is still prominent. A third party, being used, could sometimes result in collection.
Now using Lilly's definition of Reception. The Moon cannot receive Jupiter, as Jupiter is in none of the dignities of the Moon. Also it's not clear, whether Jupiter is receiving the Moon. Yes the Moon is in Jupiter's Terms, but it won't be when the conjunction is perfected - Jupiter is in the Terms of Venus, which begins at 19 degrees and 1 second of Libra. Incidentally, both Sahl and Masha'allah would not allow Jupiter to receive the Moon, as they confine Reception proper,top domicile and Exaltation. They will allow weak
Reception through Triplicity and where the Received planet is in the Bounds AND the Face of the receiving planet, otherwise there is not Reception.
Eh, we have spoken about all the rules for reception many times. And we have often agreed that if all rules need to be met, reception will happen once in a Blue Moon. I personally absolutely freely ignore the unnecessary complications and I have never seen the Moon, in particular, being not received. Have you? If it was a malefic... and if it was with bad news... chances are they would be badly received if at all. I don't think horary is all about rules although I like the clean frame (which is not always as clean as it should be) but the context of the chart and the question should be taken into consideration, in my opinion. With the Moon as significator of events, I truly cannot remember a chart that she remained "outside" of the aspect. Now, to me, aspecting Jupiter and in the sign of Venus also allows for a positive environment.
By the way I wasn't talking about reception as in mutual or one side *reception* but that there is an applying aspect. I have never seen the Moon being rejected an aspect. Never. I also believe the terms about two of the smaller dignities+triplicity that you are quoting was referring namely to cases where we are looking for that kind of *reception* to assist a difficult aspect. This is not the case here. The aspect is conjunction and there is no need for *reception* to assist it and the beneficial nature of Jupiter as well as the nature of Moon do not imply they need aid.
The question is, does Jupiter still hold the Light of the Saturn, even though it is now separating from it. I think we have to say yes to that, otherwise Collection of Light would never be possible. So Mercury's disposition will be taken to Jupiter, by the Moon and in this case, we can consider Jupiter receiving the Moon, though as I said above there is some doubt as to whether that Reception stops after the Moon moves out of the Terms of Jupiter. If I remember rightly, Sahl or Masha'allah saw the withdrawal of reception in this way to be detrimental to perfection. Jupiter is withdrawing its support from the Moon.
That argument would also apply to my view of Jupiter as ruler of the tenth. The Moon would still be stronger as an agent of perfecting the matter, if it was received by Jupiter.
Same as above. To me the Moon is in general received. Even if L8 she will be received, for better or worse. I do not folow all the rules and requirements on reception although Is tick to the major ones. The rest to me is truly complicating matters to an extend where hardly any chart will perfect through reception and this is not helpful and often is not logical.
So let's work on Moon takes light of Mercury to Jupiter, which already holds the light of Saturn. It's a complex argument Are there any other problems? The only ones I can see are the slowness of the significators, especially Jupiter. which will station Retrograde next month (5th Feb) At best that suggests that the matter will be very slow in coming about. If the second job comes up, it will be delayed, even though Jupiter is in a Cardinal Sign, suggesting a quick outcome. Let's hope it works.
One company s currently checking my references after I went successfully through all interviews. I will be very surprised if they don't have a decision this week as the reference check is last step before an offer. I have two other interviews this coming week. I doubt there will be much delay if nothing extraordinary happens. And the Moon being the fastest in the whole system, I don't see how she could be slower than say, days. Jupiter's speed is irrelevant here as he is not applying. he is waiting.
And yes. The Will I get the job is probably best left to situations where you are clearly under consideration and they want to interview you.
Not really as nearly everyone wants to interview me. I cannot cast charts for 2-3 interviews a week. I only cast a new chart for a second job and one on the job with the currently ongoing reference check as this last one is on the verge of making an offer. However, I still think the original chart from November 7 should show a second offer/job if such is coming. If the chart was radical, it should reflect the flow of events correctly.
We'll have to elave the collection argument for now as I stick to my belief that Lily would have allowed marriage co-significators. It's not so much about him ignoring his own rules than it is about him not always taking the time to actually consider every existing possibility and include it, and then bam! he uses it. I will, in fact, embark on a research journey over the internet and try to find marriage charts where collection was allowed for co-significators. Such should be available and expecially in cultures where arranged marriages or using a matchmaker is still prominent. A third party, being used, could sometimes result in collection.
Now using Lilly's definition of Reception. The Moon cannot receive Jupiter, as Jupiter is in none of the dignities of the Moon. Also it's not clear, whether Jupiter is receiving the Moon. Yes the Moon is in Jupiter's Terms, but it won't be when the conjunction is perfected - Jupiter is in the Terms of Venus, which begins at 19 degrees and 1 second of Libra. Incidentally, both Sahl and Masha'allah would not allow Jupiter to receive the Moon, as they confine Reception proper,top domicile and Exaltation. They will allow weak
Reception through Triplicity and where the Received planet is in the Bounds AND the Face of the receiving planet, otherwise there is not Reception.
Eh, we have spoken about all the rules for reception many times. And we have often agreed that if all rules need to be met, reception will happen once in a Blue Moon. I personally absolutely freely ignore the unnecessary complications and I have never seen the Moon, in particular, being not received. Have you? If it was a malefic... and if it was with bad news... chances are they would be badly received if at all. I don't think horary is all about rules although I like the clean frame (which is not always as clean as it should be) but the context of the chart and the question should be taken into consideration, in my opinion. With the Moon as significator of events, I truly cannot remember a chart that she remained "outside" of the aspect. Now, to me, aspecting Jupiter and in the sign of Venus also allows for a positive environment.
By the way I wasn't talking about reception as in mutual or one side *reception* but that there is an applying aspect. I have never seen the Moon being rejected an aspect. Never. I also believe the terms about two of the smaller dignities+triplicity that you are quoting was referring namely to cases where we are looking for that kind of *reception* to assist a difficult aspect. This is not the case here. The aspect is conjunction and there is no need for *reception* to assist it and the beneficial nature of Jupiter as well as the nature of Moon do not imply they need aid.
The question is, does Jupiter still hold the Light of the Saturn, even though it is now separating from it. I think we have to say yes to that, otherwise Collection of Light would never be possible. So Mercury's disposition will be taken to Jupiter, by the Moon and in this case, we can consider Jupiter receiving the Moon, though as I said above there is some doubt as to whether that Reception stops after the Moon moves out of the Terms of Jupiter. If I remember rightly, Sahl or Masha'allah saw the withdrawal of reception in this way to be detrimental to perfection. Jupiter is withdrawing its support from the Moon.
That argument would also apply to my view of Jupiter as ruler of the tenth. The Moon would still be stronger as an agent of perfecting the matter, if it was received by Jupiter.
Same as above. To me the Moon is in general received. Even if L8 she will be received, for better or worse. I do not folow all the rules and requirements on reception although Is tick to the major ones. The rest to me is truly complicating matters to an extend where hardly any chart will perfect through reception and this is not helpful and often is not logical.
So let's work on Moon takes light of Mercury to Jupiter, which already holds the light of Saturn. It's a complex argument Are there any other problems? The only ones I can see are the slowness of the significators, especially Jupiter. which will station Retrograde next month (5th Feb) At best that suggests that the matter will be very slow in coming about. If the second job comes up, it will be delayed, even though Jupiter is in a Cardinal Sign, suggesting a quick outcome. Let's hope it works.
One company s currently checking my references after I went successfully through all interviews. I will be very surprised if they don't have a decision this week as the reference check is last step before an offer. I have two other interviews this coming week. I doubt there will be much delay if nothing extraordinary happens. And the Moon being the fastest in the whole system, I don't see how she could be slower than say, days. Jupiter's speed is irrelevant here as he is not applying. he is waiting.
And yes. The Will I get the job is probably best left to situations where you are clearly under consideration and they want to interview you.
Not really as nearly everyone wants to interview me. I cannot cast charts for 2-3 interviews a week. I only cast a new chart for a second job and one on the job with the currently ongoing reference check as this last one is on the verge of making an offer. However, I still think the original chart from November 7 should show a second offer/job if such is coming. If the chart was radical, it should reflect the flow of events correctly.