Reversals with numbered pips

Today, I decided to try a reading with my Oswald Wirth deck and quickly realized that there was no way to read a reversal with the coins or the wands pips. Is that to say that reversals were something new with the Rider Waite deck and reversals were not read before then?

It is more difficult but I do read reversals from numbered pips, only those who we can distinguish the difference ( for odd numers) because for even numbers, they are exactly the same on the two sides.
There are a number of book of the TdM that propose reversal meanings.

Actually, the Order of the Golden Dawn and its tradition did not use reversals either

Michellehihi said:

It is more difficult but I do read reversals from numbered pips, only those who we can distinguish the difference ( for odd numers) because for even numbers, they are exactly the same on the two sides.
There are a number of book of the TdM that propose reversal meanings.

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How do you read reversals for the cards that are exactly the same? I find this a problem because I think reversals are very important and I have several decks with numbered pips.

delinfrey said:

Actually, the Order of the Golden Dawn and its tradition did not use reversals either

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I have just recently begun to read reversals and now find that the reading is immensely richer and much more accurate when taking reversals into consideration. I don't think I would want to go back to ignoring them. Still, it is a problem when it comes to the numbered pips when they cards are identical either way.

I'm still trying to come to grips with the upright meanings of my standard TdM pips (I don't own the Wirth deck yet) so I haven't tackled reversals with them. But I see the same challenge with a few of the cards. In my Tarot Classic, most of the pips have a tiny Roman numeral at one end (in addition to the identical numerals at either side) which can be used as "top" and "bottom" indicators. Some have a central figure (like Swords) that can be seen as having the blade pointing up (as top) or down (as bottom), or the sword hilts situated at either top or bottom, according to your preference. But the 8 of Batons really threw me, until I noticed that one of the four branches had very slightly different striations on the leaves, allowing me to decide which end I would consider "up" in reading. There are similar, barely discernible, differences in the "decorations" of a few other cards that need to be assessed in the same way. Sometimes it can be that subtle.

Ruby Jewel said:

How do you read reversals for the cards that are exactly the same? I find this a problem because I think reversals are very important and I have several decks with numbered pips.

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Those exactly the same (for example 8 of coins) I don't read the reversal because I don't know if their are upright or not

I read somewhere about putting a small dot with a pen on the bottom of the card so you know whether the pips are upright or reversed. I'd suggest doing them on all the cards so they look like a feature and not a mistake by only being on some of the cards and not others.

Two methods stick out in my memory.

One is that you read it entirely intuitively, looking at the other cards, feeling their vibes, and deciding for yourself if the energy of the card in question feels negative, blocked, or otherwise like a reversal. I don't use this method myself because there is no accountability - no way to prove how I came to a certain conclusion about the card.

The other method, which I find more reliable, for reading reversals in symmetrical pips is to look at the card or cards that precede it. If the numerical values ascend at the symmetrical pip, it would be read as upright. If the numerical values descend at the symmetrical pip, it would be read as reversed.

Take for example the Six of Coins. If the previous card is the Three of Cups, it would be read upright. If the previous card is the Eight of Sticks, it would be read as reversed.

I like this method for determining reversals in those pesky symmetrical pips a lot more than just intuiting the meaning. Somehow, it feels more solid...

Ultimately, each card embodies the positive, negative, and all shades in between, so one doesn't necessarily have to use reversals in order to get the message across. A positive side to a card's meaning will always come with a warning, which might be interpreted as "reversed."

Barleywine said:

I'm still trying to come to grips with the upright meanings of my standard TdM pips (I don't own the Wirth deck yet) so I haven't tackled reversals with them. But I see the same challenge with a few of the cards. In my Tarot Classic, most of the pips have a tiny Roman numeral at one end (in addition to the identical numerals at either side) which can be used as "top" and "bottom" indicators. Some have a central figure (like Swords) that can be seen as having the blade pointing up (as top) or down (as bottom), or the sword hilts situated at either top or bottom, according to your preference. But the 8 of Batons really threw me, until I noticed that one of the four branches had very slightly different striations on the leaves, allowing me to decide which end I would consider "up" in reading. There are similar, barely discernible, differences in the "decorations" of a few other cards that need to be assessed in the same way. Sometimes it can be that subtle.

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Hi Barleywine. it is good to know someone else is struggling with this conundrum....I didn't concern myself with reversals until a couple of months ago when I discovered how important they can be....and since my usual deck is RW the issue didn't surface until now....when I laid out the Wirth deck.....so beautiful......but no way to tell reversals on wands and some pentacles. I do notice some differences in some of the details in the leaves, etc...but I don't think I would be able to remember what decision I came to regarding them in a reading. I'm thinking of reading reversals only for the court cards and major arcana....at least it would be consistent.