Ace of Cups W

Teheuti

similia said:
Is that a W on the RWS Ace of Cups? Or an upside down M?
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It could be any or all of the following:
Shin
Waite
Water
Wine
Will (representing the Sword in the Cup)
Wafer
Work (as in Great Work)
Word (as in "the Word was made flesh" & Christ as the True Word)
Woman
West (direction of Water)
World (spirit into matter)
It could also be an M when viewed from the perspective of the Above descending (just as the dove is descending). From the Divine perspective it could be:
Mem
Mary
Mother
Mystery/Mysticism
Micro/Macrocosm
Matter
Magus/Magia
The fact that it could be Mem-Mother-Mystery-Matter when viewed from Above and Shin-Water-Wine-Woman-Work-Word-World from Below is quite rich.
Also, Waite liked to include bits from earlier Tarot traditions and he seemed to get several details found in the cups from one of the 18-19th century decks (can't remember which one right now) that also shows a kind of flattened W on the Ace of Cups. Of course he wouldn't have used this detail so prominently if he didn't have his own understanding of what it signified.

Mary
 

Grigori

Teheuti said:
It could be any or all of the following:
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Thanks for the list!

Arcano now I want to go over the deck looking for hidden W's and M's :)

You guys are the best!
 

ArcanoMáximo

For me, besides the Love, it is also the typical symbol of the Energy or “Addition” (just only that it lies over his “back”) the Life symbol, if there is one,and at the bottom isn’t this what this card want to show? In fact in this ace we can see how is adding the bread (flesh) with the spirit (dove) and with the water or blood ( the emotions) and Life it self, because for many cultures blood is the symbol of Life, and now may be represent by the DNA molecule form.
AM*
 

ArcanoMáximo

Even more: in The Lovers there is an addition too. For me is as if Pamela and Waite are wanting to say us:we have Up and Down, Left and Rigth,Male and Female, Uprigth and Reversed, In and Out, etc, but at the bottom it's all the same, ALL is THE SAME ENERGIE !!!!
AM*
 

mythos

ArcanoMáximo said:
I think that actually where really the reference to Waite is clear is across the initial W in the Hierophant card, in the top of the great haido. Surely she was considering Waite a great master and honor him there, don't you agree?

http://www.learntarot.com/bigjpgs/maj05.jpg
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Wow! I hadn't ever noticed that. I think it is time to buy the monster-size RWS deck.... see so much more,

Thanks
mythos
 

ArcanoMáximo

The History of E = mc2

"the monster-size RWS"
Shirley, i wanna one too! :) LoL!

"it is also the typical symbol of the Energy or “Addition”, just only that it lies over his back"

Searching a bit I found a very interesting article about the origin of the famous equation. Bearing in mind that started spreading in 1905 for me it would not be very strange that Pamela and Waite have wanted to include it in their new deck, and that actually instead of one W or M performs an " E " of "Energy". Amazing!

http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/einstein.html
 

Parzival

Teheuti said:
It could be any or all of the following:
Shin
Waite
Water
Wine
Will (representing the Sword in the Cup)
Wafer
Work (as in Great Work)
Word (as in "the Word was made flesh" & Christ as the True Word)
Woman
West (direction of Water)
World (spirit into matter)
It could also be an M when viewed from the perspective of the Above descending (just as the dove is descending). From the Divine perspective it could be:
Mem
Mary
Mother
Mystery/Mysticism
Micro/Macrocosm
Matter
Magus/Magi

Do not forget that Waite was an expert on the Grail legends, and he wrote The Hidden Church Of The Holy Grail in 1909. In that book, he has a chapter on "The Parsifal of Wolfram von Eschenbach," the most esoteric and heterodox version of the story, popular in central Europe in the early 1200's.
In that chapter he refers to Wolfram's name for the Grail castle-- "Mont Salvage." So, the Grail is kept hidden away in the castle of "Mont Salvage." And it so happens that the typeface for W/M on the card and the typeface for W/M in the book are identical. Some kind of old English typeface. (The vertical right bar is wider than the vertical left bar on both, when the card's letter is turned upside down into an M. The inside "V" of the "M" has the same unusual thickness. To my sight, the Grail in the Ace of Cups is an upside -down "M" as found in the same typeface in Waite's book on Grail history. It could stand for "Mystery," another favorite capitalized keyword in Waite's book, along with "Mont Salvage," the Grail castle.) ) Maybe coincidental, maybe not. But let's include where the Grail is hidden away, "Mont Salvage", as at least a possibility in the list. That is where the Grail heals.
One other observational speculation. From the earth below, the Grail shows a distinct "W." But from the dove's heavenward view, the Grail shows an "M." Thus, we may be seeing two complementary letters here. From the earth we have the "Word" beyond the world, while from heaven we have the castle to which the bird descends, "Mont Salvage." -- In the Wolfram story, the dove descends from heaven with a wafer, empowering the Grail in the castle with it. So the life-waters outpour to the world below. Maybe the letter is double?
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Teheuti

Frank Hall said:
Do not forget that Waite was an expert on the Grail legends, and he wrote The Hidden Church Of The Holy Grail in 1909.
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In my opinion that book is key to the entire Minor Arcana as I demonstrate in an article that will be appearing in Llewellyn's 2006 Tarot Reader (an anthology of tarot articles) due out early this fall. I'll also be talking about this at the International Tarot Conference in Melbourne. Waite makes his intention perfectly clear when he says that the Ace of Cups is “an intimation of that which may lie behind the Lesser Arcana.” However it's not the Wolfram version of the Grail legend that is key to the suit of Cups.

And it so happens that the typeface for W/M on the card and the typeface for W/M in the book are identical. Some kind of old English typeface. (The vertical right bar is wider than the vertical left bar on both, when the card's letter is turned upside down into an M.) Maybe coincidental, maybe not. But let's include where the Grail is hidden away, "Mont Salvage", as at least a possibility in the list. That is where the Grail heals.
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Pick up any book with serif type and you'll probably find that the vertical right bar of the M is usually wider than the left.

IMHO, "Mont Salvage" is not a real contender for the W on the Ace of Cups.

Waite often speaks of the Water of Life and it's importance. But, personally I think this was his "signature" card marking his committment to the Secret Tradition that he found preserved in the Grail legends and that he brought out in his modifications to the tarot.

Mary
 

Parzival

Yes, quite possibly a curious coincidence that Wolfram's castle of the Grail is "Mont Salvage" with Waite's W/M on the Grail cup. At least a beautiful
synchronicity. Curiously, Wolfram describes the "dove from heaven winging," " "bringing to the Grail a wafer white" which the dove places on the "stone" or Grail (Book 9, Wolfram's Parzival, lines 468-477). -- So the Grail/stone is empowered on the "Good Friday." I suppose I associate this passage and Waite's Ace of Cups too closely. Anyway, maybe there is not just one symbolic link. It could be a multiple reference. I agree, most importantly, with the view that this image is Waite's "signature card marking his commitment to the Secret Tradition found in the Grail legends," as Mary states. It's all about the power of the Grail, life-giving, healing, rebirthing.
 

ArcanoMáximo

just wonder:
if this is a W and it's a Waite signature, why migth be so diferent in The Hierophant card? Or that in the Hierophant card isn't properly a W?
 
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