Newbie to Thoth needs advice

foolMoon

You dont seem to understand about philosophers ( and people like Jung ) having such 'discarnate entities' around them and communicating with them

http://daemonpage.com/socrates-daimon.php &

https://archive.org/stream/a591631100mannuoft/a591631100mannuoft_djvu.txt

http://www2.fiu.edu/~hauptli/SocraticVoicesPietyandRationalityLectureSupplement.html

Plato even says we should 'choose a daemon'

http://thezodiac.com/weird/reincarnationplato2.htm


Also, if you studied magic or philosophy yourself you would realise the connection is so obvious ..... but one needs to actually study it and its roots, not the quick mod pop snapshot view one may get.

I mean its the whole basis of the world viewpoint and paradigm before 1600 that magic religion and philosophy were inexorably entwined !

even wiki says that .... "
Renaissance humanism (15th and 16th century) saw a resurgence in hermeticism and Neo-Platonic varieties of ceremonial magic. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_magic

You need to do a LOT more research and study .


Jung is a psychologist, why bring him into this thread? We have been talking about Philosophy, Magic, Thelema and Religion.

You seem be confused between Metaphysics and Magic. They are not the same. Of course Plato's system is largely about the world of Ideas, and it had been foundation of Christianity. But he has nothing to do with magical philosophy you are talking about.
 

foolMoon

Etymologically, Thelema can be characterized as a philosophy, but it does not fit into the mold of academic philosophy, which has been carefully restricted, especially since Wittgenstein observed that metaphysics, for example, is largely expressed by words whose denotations are notoriously vague.

Good point. And the term magical philosophy, which needs clarification, I was just saying.
 

seedcake

Jung is a psychologist, why bring him into this thread? We have been talking about Philosophy, Magic, Thelema and Religion.

Because Jung incorporated Philosophy, Magic and Religion into his theory of analitycal psychology. 'Til this day his theories are used in many spiritual circles. And his approach in psychology is not well-recieved by more "scientific" psychologists. He's less dissed than Freud but still, many students of this field are saying that psychoanalysis and neopsychoanalysis is not their cup of tea. Analytical psychology can be very useful tool here :)
 

foolMoon

Because Jung incorporated Philosophy, Magic and Religion into his theory of analitycal psychology. 'Til this day his theories are used in many spiritual circles. And his approach in psychology is not well-recieved by more "scientific" psychologists. He's less dissed than Freud but still, many students of this field are saying that psychoanalysis and neopsychoanalysis is not their cup of tea. Analytical psychology can be very useful tool here :)

Sure. But but but...
I understood he used philosophy religion magic mysticism and psychology to set up his own psychological system, but he is neither philosopher theologian or magician. He is an Analytical Psychologist.

Of course some of his theories regarding symbols are closely related to tarot studies and readings, but he as a psychologist is not really relevant to what we are talking about in this thread, I would have thought :)
 

smw

Sure. But but but...
I understood he used philosophy religion magic mysticism and psychology to set up his own psychological system, but he is neither philosopher theologian or magician. He is an Analytical Psychologist.

Of course some of his theories regarding symbols are closely related to tarot studies and readings, but he as a psychologist is not really relevant to what we are talking about in this thread, I would have thought :)

I find Jung very relevant to questions about Thelema. Jung's core purpose for the Work in depth Psychology was for Individuation. As I understand this, it is a shift in awareness that the Ego (our everyday, conscious 'I' thinking) is not the sum of who we really are. Integrating our unconscious hidden aspects and the conscious 'I' reunites us with our true Self. This I see this as similar to Thelema in finding your true Will so that your full potential as an individual star is unlocked.

I also see unification with your HGA to be another expression of this. I move between understanding my HGA as my Self, (higher as in higher than Ego) and as external. Maybe that is because the mind works like that - even in dreams external seeming figures work well as representations of our own thoughts. However, I am inclined to favour external more as it is easier to comprehend, is more emotional and captures my imagination.

From my (admittedly) little reading of Jung so far, I see a serious occultist and magician... :)

eta I think the questions you are raising are really thought provoking though they are rather huge topics to get a grasp on without a lot of areas to explore first. For me, even starting terms like Philosophy seem to be used in different ways....I thought Philosophy was just how you perceived the universe, self outlook on life etc, this seems to be different to academic Philosophy which looks like it has a more systematic way of thinking...

ps there is no fire.... no need to jump to any conclusions.... (though I do that too :laugh:)
 

foolMoon

I find Jung very relevant to questions about Thelema. Jung's core purpose for the Work in depth Psychology was for Individuation. As I understand this, it is a shift in awareness that the Ego (our everyday, conscious 'I' thinking) is not the sum of who we really are.

Integrating our unconscious hidden aspects and the conscious 'I' reunites us with our true Self. This I see this as similar to Thelema in finding your true Will so that your own potential as an individual star is unlocked. I also see unification with your HGA to be another expression of this.

From my (admittedly) little reading of a Jung so far, I see a serious occultist and magician... :)

eta I think the questions you are raising are really thought provoking though they are rather huge topics to get a grasp on without a lot of areas to explore first. For me, even starting terms like Philosophy seem to be used in different ways....I thought Philosophy was just how you perceived the universe, self outlook on life etc, this seems to be different to academic Philosophy which looks like it has a more systematic way of thinking...

ps there is no fire.... no need to jump to any conclusions.... (though I do that too :laugh:)

I have not read Jung yet, but I can see why you feel Jung and Thelema are related from your post.

In that respect, I was thinking if Thelema and Buddhism could be also related in religious level. But it could be another thread of its own.

i found it odd to bring Jung into the argument in the process of clarification of the statement, "Thelema is not a religion. It is a system of magical philosophy."

I thought it is not that clear cut issue to be able to claim adamantly without checking out a few points, and the mumbo jumbo terminology "a system of magical philosophy" could be clarified. :)
 

foolMoon

Oh forgot to add, yes there are different philosophies I suppose, but it could be a useful tool to dissect and clarify, when they throw at us unclear or obscure definitions, terminologies and statements in all subjects so we understand better what they are talking about.:)
 

smw

Oh forgot to add, yes there are different philosophies I suppose, but it could be a useful tool to dissect and clarify, when they throw at us unclear or obscure definitions, terminologies and statements in all subjects so we understand better what they are talking about.:)

I have not read Jung yet, but I can see why you feel Jung and Thelema are related from your post.

In that respect, I was thinking if Thelema and Buddhism could be also related in religious level. But it could be another thread of its own.

i found it odd to bring Jung into the argument in the process of clarification of the statement, "Thelema is not a religion. It is a system of magical philosophy."

I thought it is not that clear cut issue to be able to claim adamantly without checking out a few points, and the mumbo jumbo terminology "a system of magical philosophy" could be clarified. :)

I might be getting muddled myself, I thought that Ravenest had already clarified that Thelema can be viewed as a religion but it doesn't have to be. Bringing in Jung and other connections to help get an understanding of what that magical philosophy might be about. X

Eta I just looked back through the thread and the original statement was IMO Thelema is not a religion. Maybe that's where wires started getting crossed.
 

foolMoon

I might be getting muddled myself, I thought that Ravenest had already clarified that Thelema can be viewed as a religion but it doesn't have to be. Bringing in Jung and other connections to help get an understanding of what that magical philosophy might be about. X

Eta I just looked back through the thread and the original statement was IMO Thelema is not a religion. Maybe that's where wires started getting crossed.

I have a General introduction book about Jung but it does not have anything about magic, religion, or philosophy, so I am wondering if he had done anything on those areas himself. It has following chapters.

The man and his Psychology
Archetypes and the collective unconscious
The stages of life
Psychological types
Dreams
Therapy
Jung's alleged anti-semitism
The summing up

I know it had been a trend to adopt Psychological approach even in Astrology recently, but I didn't agree with them. I was more on the side of religious divination approach - divination messages are from God.