Thoth Study Group - Lust - XI

To progress with the majors - on to the next card - Lust - XI . . .

The imagery in this card, for me, is going to take some getting used to as it is very different to the RWS Strength, even though there is still a lion and a woman in the card and it is about taming the beast within.

The first thing that I was curious about was why there were so many heads to the lion?

From Akron/Banzhaf's Handbook to the Cards:

Seven heads - The card Lust does justice to these circumstances, in that instead of a wild beast it shows us a half-tamed beast with five human heads and two animal faces, a symbol of controlled instincts as well as - reversed - an image of the human being who is still "wild" in his animal instincts despite all adaptations. According to Crowley, we see the head of a saint, an angel, a brave man, an adultress, a satyr, a poet, and finally a lion serpent.

A brave man - adultress woman - sorry but the first thing I thought of was the females are still getting the short end of the stick here - why not the other way round - a brave woman and an adultress man. My 2c here.

Back on track now - hope to see others join in with their thoughts and knowledge on this card as I definitely need to think about this some more . . .

CreativeFire

PS. For ease of reference I have attached a scan of the card

Also some previous threads on Thoth's Lust card that may be of interest:

Lust XI
Liber Legis and the Thoth Tarot: Lust
lust
Strength

CreativeFire

Just a few minor observations --

it appears the lion is walking on shadows of some sort; you can see a face or two and also someone's hands closed together (as if in prayer?) right in between the lion's front two legs.

what exactly is the woman holding in her hand? is she supporting a structure of some sort? some type of energy? whatever it is, it appears that snakes are disappearing quite quickly from it. When I picture this card I view the energy growing brighter and brighter.

XI - Lust

According to Key Words for the Crowley Tarot by Banzhaf and Theler, Lust is holding an uterus shaped cup with what looks like an egg inside. The shape is an inverted sign for Leo, with which this card is alligned.

The ten rays of light remind me of the spheres on the Tree of Life.

The seven heads on the beast might represent the seven deadly sins. Or they may represent the types of "lusts" that overtake some people (ie., lust for power, money, food, sex, etc.). Lust being an uncontrollable desire that makes you take unreasonable risks. (Gee, I would use the word addiction but that might scare some people.)

I. also, see connections to Strength. It takes strength and it attributes, patience - compassion - soft control, to overcome the behaviors caused by various types of lust.

Here's my take on the card:
A naked, proud woman rides a seven-headed beast. Thr reins show that she has mastery over the beast, implying she has mastery over herself. This allows her to truly enjoy all aspects of life. She holds up an uterus, in which human life grows, and it radiates life force thru-out the universe.

If this card showed up in a reading, questions I would ask myself are:
*Is there some undesirable behavior causing problems?
*Am I in control or are my desires in control?

Lust inner strengh

Testing your inner strengh to tame the beast, Lust for the pleasures of life. True strengh is in the mind and in our emotions and soul. Balance is the solution, chocolate is good, too much makes you sick, Lust to the extreme will make your soul sick....

Diwha

TheoMo said:

what exactly is the woman holding in her hand? is she supporting a structure of some sort? some type of energy? whatever it is, it appears that snakes are disappearing quite quickly from it. When I picture this card I view the energy growing brighter and brighter.

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Interesting I had not seen these as snakes, TheoMo, but you have made me have another look!

When I first looked at this card, the impression I got from the background imagery of the card was that they were 'underground', in the shadows or beneath the surface in some way.

I also see the wriggling creatures at the top of the card as 'earthworms', which are hurrying away from the light, which makes sense to me as they do not like bright light and choose to live in dark, damp places.

I am still not sure what I would call the 'thing' (for want of a better word) in her hand, but I know that I have been thinking on this card for a bit longer . . . I would describe it that she is using her strength to keep control or 'rein in' the lion beast (or lusts) to keep them below the surface and only let a certain amount reach up to breakthrough. Also I notice that it is this 'vessel' in her hand that she appears to be looking at or focusing on - not the beast itself, which also made me think that she is comfortable in her ability to control the beast and is using her strength to lift or hold the vessel. Just some off the wall thoughts here from the image itself.

CreativeFire

In the Rider deck, this is placed next to the chariot (i kno that's obvious) which were opposites; the chariot about outer control, strength/lust about inner.

When thoth changed this, this meaning changes, yet stays the same because there is an obvious contrast even though they are farther apart.

The chariot and lust both hold 'things', a holy grail in the chariot, and a uterus in lust. Both cards speak of the holy grail, the priests in the background of lust have given their life to it.

The woman has surrendered to the passions as she rides atop the lion, leo-which rules sex among several things. Although she has given into the lion's passion, she still holds control of the reins which may be of a passion-nature because passion could control passion.

The egg in the uterus travels upwards to the tree of life, ready to meet a new consciousness.

I don't think the Thoth was a deck 'changed' from the RWS deck. I think it was developed independantly, starting from the older traditions and adding Crowley's thoughts and meditations.

Marion said:

I don't think the Thoth was a deck 'changed' from the RWS deck. I think it was developed independantly, starting from the older traditions and adding Crowley's thoughts and meditations.

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I agree. The Thoth tarot follows the same order as the Marseille Tarot. The RWS deck is the one that deviates from tradition. When A.E.Waite and P.C.Smith created the deck they were following the Golden Dawn astrological attributions which required them to switch the places of Strength and Justice.

Yeah, sorry I shouldn't have made it sound like that--i know they went to the school at the same time so it was their own invention, thanks for catching my error