9 of Cups

Thirteen

Never letting others give to us is selfish

SirRushing said:
I don't see it as a sharing card of selflessness. it is all about getting what you want. Not you giving others what they want. The illustration is one person being happy over his possessions. Not him sharing his possessions with others. It looks like he is saying "Look at me, I got 9 awards on my shelf. Ain't I awesome. Yes, admire me. I got it made. Life is wonderful. You probably want to be like me. I know, the truth hurts that you can't be like me, the person who has it all."
I think his solitude could mean that. But I also think it could mean what I said in my previous post. I know people love the story of the "Giving Tree" but I happen to hate that horrible story. No one and nothing that gives till it's left a stump is doing itself or anyone else any good. Sometimes, you have to back off and let others give to you. Not just because you deserve to get now and then, but because it teaches others how to be giving and open-hearted.

And isn't it a terribly selfish thing to always be the one giving to others, never allowing others a chance to give to you? :confused:

I think seeing this card as only self-satisfied and smug misses many other messages it has to offer us, including the one that says it's all right to want something for ourselves now and then--and that there is sometimes more generosity in allowing others to give to us then in giving to them.
 

YDM42

I just dont agree with this card being selfishness. It is affiliated with an angel, it's a wish card and sometimes affiliated with laziness. I think over indulgence, is as negative as this card gets since 10 of cups can be over saturation. Selfish cards or self intrest cards to me would be 7 of swords or 5 of swords--since they are based on little emotional attachment and all mental energy. 9 of cups is very emotional--selfish people tend to not cater to emotions.
 

WalesWoman

I haven't seen 9 Cups as selfishness or all that smug either. To me it has a lot of satisfaction in it, perhaps self satisfaction because as Thirteen said earlier, they are pleased with the party they put together and can't wait to entertain their friends and loved ones lavishly. Preparations are all complete and they are pleasantly exhausted from all their efforts, relaxing a bit before their guests show up. Life is a party, let it begin!

Or like Santa Claus, bake their brains out before Christmas, so they can give away tins of cookies & fudge to everyone on their list. Not selfish at all.

I might think that the person you are said to be expecting is someone who is generous, likes to share or perhaps likes to show off their stuff, maybe the life of a party, but one who highly enjoys themselves. Maybe they overindulge, eat, drink and be merry... because who knows what tomorrow will bring. I think they would live in the moment quite a lot... but on the other hand. If they have it, they are going to want to put it to good use or give it away... take this... it's more than I can use and will just go bad if you don't take it.
I don't think they are the save for a rainy day types, but then again, they would stock pile and prepare for some special occasion long in advance.

Another thing tho' since it's a nine, it could be they are always waiting for the thing to begin...I'll be totally happy when this happens, so there is always one thing that needs to happen before they feel complete. Hopefully the party won't be stalled until it does.
 

LovelyMissAries

Thirteen said:
What's important to remember, I think, is that this is a nine card. And in all nine cards there is a single individual dealing with an abundance of his or her suit. But as I said before, there is nothing in the nines that usually relates to greed or selfishness. I think they're rather like the Hermit who has to be alone in order to do things his way and maybe discover something new.

Which sparks another question... the nine cards are about abundance, but they stem from The Hermit. What's his abundance... wisdom? I suppose "abundance" doesn't always have to mean tangible, then.

Likewise, I think, the 9/Cups gent needs to take a moment surrounded by those cups in order to connect with them. Like a battery drinking in power. Once it's full and charged, it can do a lot, but you've got to give it time alone with it's power source to just charge up.

Would you say that's what he was doing in the 8 of Cups, and the 9 represents him "re-charged"?

We often think that it's selfish to hide away rather than being out there always giving.
I'm on the fence as far as 9 of Cups and giving goes. Yes, if you use your imagination you could say he's giving back and that interpretation works... but if you're looking at the card on the surface, he's not giving anything. He looks like he's guarding the 9 of Cups vs. offering them, handing them out, etc.

I think Veniteangeli was on point in saying it depends on what kind of person you are, half-full or half-empty. Hmph. Sometimes it's frustrating having such room to interpret these cards! :p

Taking time to bask in the love of others, if you like, fattens us up. Once done, we can go out and give that energy to those in need. I don't know for sure if that's the right interpretation, but good image or not, I think this card urges us to open up to what others want to give us--and to enjoy it rather than feeling guilty about it. If we do that, we'll not only have enough to sustain us, but to give away to others in need.

Yes? No? Maybe?


All three :)
 

Thirteen

Starlight09 said:
Which sparks another question... the nine cards are about abundance, but they stem from The Hermit. What's his abundance... wisdom? I suppose "abundance" doesn't always have to mean tangible, then.
Well, 9/Swords is an abundance of troubles and worries and things to think about. So it certainly doesn't have to be tangible. I think what the Hermit has is an abundance of knowledge--or research if you like. I believe that he retires so that he can finally codify, organize, and examine it all--and maybe make connections that haven't ever been made before.

Which is to say, I don't think he has wisdom, but he does have knowledge and a lifetime of experience. If he's allowed the time and solitude to put it all together, to make sense of it, if you like, it could lead him to wisdom. Rather like a grad student taking everything, holing up, and coming out with their ph.d. thesis. Maybe the other 9's are a little like that as well. And the question is, can you take all of this and produce that thesis or will you find it's too much and give up on trying to master it?

Would you say that's what he was doing in the 8 of Cups, and the 9 represents him "re-charged"?
Often the 8/Cups is seen as leaving something you love for something uncertain but important to you--possibly an illusion or a dream. There is, however, another view: the man in the 8/Cups may be walking away from something that brought him down, that left him empty rather than fulfilled. Have you ever seen the movie 16 Candles? There is a scene where "Jake" (the man our heroine, Samantha, longs for) looks about his house after a party. It's trashed. And his vapid girlfriend is the one who invited all the people who did this to his house.

Jake is disgusted--and that's the 8/Cups moment suggested in this other interpretation. You feel that you wasted your honest feelings on someone who wasn't worth it. Who drank you dry. Or, alternately, that you indulged in someone who you thought was a fine vintage (they came in a great bottle or cup?), but turned out to be cheap wine, not worth buying and drinking.

What's most important in this view, however, is that it doesn't make the person give up. It teaches them a lesson in knowing false from true, and makes them more determined than ever to keep searching for the real deal.

Viewing the 8/Cups this way, the 9/Cups would indicate finally getting a case of the good stuff. It affirms that we learned our lesson, and that we were right to not give up our search, even if we did have a bad experience. And, hey, that is what happens in the movie, right? Jake doesn't give up on girls or love, but he does leave the vapid girlfriend and, with real effort, gets together with a girl who won't take his love for granted. He moves from 8/Cups to 9/Cups. From what wasn't real to what is real.
 

Esperanza

9 of cups seems to me to be a card that takes on a very different meaning depending on where it is placed and why it comes up.

As a representation of the present, its message is very different from where it represents the future. I don't see selfishness where it comes up as an outcome. I recently got it in response to how he feels about her. Unless I am off, I am unable to see any selfishness there and it seems to me that is a lovely card to see in a relationship reading (especially since it is a cup).

I had always seen it as a card that is always nice to see in a reading, and am now realising that it is much more ambiguous. It is a 'nice to see, but beware not to rest on your laurels' card?
 

SirRushing

9 cups doesn't mean strictly selfishness per se. However, it means satisfaction by a wish being granted and coming true...the wish card. However, your wish can be selfish.

I can be a cheater in my relationship, and my partner found out that I had 3 lovers while I cheated on them. And my partner threatens to leave me, which I don't want to happen, because let's assume we are married, well leaving me means a divorce, which I don't want to financially pay for. I can beg my partner to don't leave me, even if I lie and say that I will change, even go to marriage counseling to change my behavior. My partner agrees to forgive me, even though I know that in my mind that I just lied to keep them from leaving me. Well, I got my wish that they be an idiot and stay with me for my own selfish reasons....I got my 9 Cups with my partner.


Another example?

Let's say that I am on a date with someone new. All I want to do is to have sex with them, no serious relationship. They said to me that they don't want sex without love. I say whatever needs to be said to assure them that I am not into a one nightstand. I saw whatever they want to believe and they want to hear about me wanting a "serious" relationship just so I can get them to pull their pants down for me. And once we had sex, I am satisfied that I got my wish, which is whatever I wanted from them. Me having to loosen up and trust me was my 9 Cups. Now I had had the sex, I really don't want to deal with them anymore. I got what I wanted and now I just want to end the relationship. And I dump them and move on the next person.


Yes, 9 Cups is the wish card, but just because you got your wish that doesn't mean you wish and the thing you desired was a good thing for you, or the other person. It means that your wish has been fulfilled and you are now satisfied that it came true.

So in essence, depending on your relationship with a person and the position of the card in a thread, 9 cups could indicated a selfish person with a selfish motive of getting what they wanted. Once they got what they wanted, then you will see the 5 swords, or the 7 swords of them trying to sneak away with their ulterior motives of using you and abusing you.

9 Cups could indicated an asshole fulfilling their dream and desire to harm you emotionally and physically. They are smugged that they won and you lost, while thinking how great they are in making you their fool.

So 9 Cups can be good, or bad, depending on the person and situation you are dealing with. It is never an 100% good card. I have learned no cards are actually good or bad, just the circumstances of it. I mean, 5 swords, 7 swords and 9 swords are always determined as the "bad" cards, but their have been situations where they have become good cards and meant nothing negative at all.

7 swords could be the avoidance of danger. 5 swords could be looking out for your best interest. 9 swords could be about rightfully worrying about someone you love, like a new mother rushing to her newborn baby after hearing it cry to see what is wrong, which nothing could be wrong, but the worry she has for her own child gives indication how much she loves her offspring.
 

SirRushing

YDM42 said:
I just dont agree with this card being selfishness. It is affiliated with an angel, it's a wish card and sometimes affiliated with laziness. I think over indulgence, is as negative as this card gets since 10 of cups can be over saturation. Selfish cards or self intrest cards to me would be 7 of swords or 5 of swords--since they are based on little emotional attachment and all mental energy. 9 of cups is very emotional--selfish people tend to not cater to emotions.

Not all wishes are angelic and good. What if I wish that you were dead? 9 cups right there. What if I get my wish that you die. Still a 9 cups.

Just saying. And if I use religion to satisfy my own psychosis, which many people do, I can say, "Hey, God or the angels were on my side for making my wish come true. They wanted you dead just as much as I wanted you dead...and I lucked out and it happened. You will be burried in your grave by next week. Yay for me! the cosmos and heavenly beings are all on my side, not yours!"
 

Fostha

SirRushing said:
Not all wishes are angelic and good. What if I wish that you were dead? 9 cups right there. What if I get my wish that you die. Still a 9 cups.

Just saying. And if I use religion to satisfy my own psychosis, which many people do, I can say, "Hey, God or the angels were on my side for making my wish come true. They wanted you dead just as much as I wanted you dead...and I lucked out and it happened. You will be burried in your grave by next week. Yay for me! the cosmos and heavenly beings are all on my side, not yours!"
Oh brother,it looks awful when you put it like that,for all the world to see. I only hope you really love the one you're with. (I dont follow any kind of religion and I certainly wont be told who/what I should put my faith into,by anyone)
The fundamental message,and real beauty of this card is simply 'be careful what you wish for because you just might get it.' Emotional contentment and satisfaction varies from person to person,otherwise the world would be incredibly boring.
 

FenestraThought

Fundimentals

Starlight09 said:
Does the 9 of Cups always indicate selfishness? I used to love that card but ever since I read it indicates selfishness, I'm weary of it when it appears and that's always the first thing that pops in my mind.

U have a lot of different perspectives to work with now. So I won't give you another. Just wanted to point out, for the sake of your question, you should look at the cards with the mentality that you "had" about them at the time of the reading.
The cards communicate with use in terms that make sense to us. The clearer our communication with them the clearer they can talk to us. . .
If the above quote was how you thought of the 9 of cups when you did the reading then it is likely that is the card the deck chose to speak to you through. . . I mean, emotionally, what other card in the deck do YOU consider to mean "selfish" and on an "emotional" level? this could be your answer and you don't want it to be. . .

Now that you have a new way of looking at the 9 of cups... get a clear idea about what IT DOES mean to you (not what you might want it to mean) and do the reading again. . . see what you get.