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Khatruman  Khatruman is offline
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Re: Re: Diana, just offering advice that was asked for


Quote:
Originally posted by Diana
My point of view is too much of a European one and bears no relation to the terrible problems you people encounter, whether the problems be real, imagined or both.

arkgoth: you could try and market your film in Europe where it will probably cause less problems for people.
"O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!"
--Robert Burns

I guess being so Ameri-centric shows, eh? We are a strange creature, we Americans. In many ways decadent as all get-out, and in others as prudish as a puritan! I will try to look at things with a more worldly perspective, and for that I ask that you continue to offer it to us, or at least offer repeatedly that mirror through which we view our blemishes. However, please be open and know that the face I sometimes show is not the only face we Americans have. I present it in the hopes that it doesn't become in reality as terrible as I and others have presented here. You have many centuries of wisdom behind you that we are only now struggling through. Please bear with us.

Peace!
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Re: Re: Diana, just offering advice that was asked for


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Originally posted by Diana
Well indeed, another example of the Atlantic Ocean divide. It is obviously relates to specific American problems which I can only see from the outskirts, as a spectator. We don't have Ms. Cleo, and people in Europe are not very concerned about the Death and the Devil card. People are not scared of Tarot here, possibly because it has been part of the culture for hundreds of years now.

arkgoth: you could try and market your film in Europe where it will probably cause less problems for people.
Khatruman thank you for eloquently stating what I was trying to say. It is the feeding of the stereotype that worries me. Based on the probable audience I doubt any disclaimers would be read, and I agree that the older crowd would not see the movie but would certainly point to it to reinforce their point of view.

Diana, I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned the cultural differences between the US and Europe. In the the US the tarot is not understood very well at all, and at least where I live still bears a negative stereotype. I am one of the other members that brought up the sniper. I referenced the sniper only as an example of something that propogates the negative stereotype of the tarot.

I appreciate Arkgoth's interest in hearing out our points of view, and I am not here to slam him or his intentions ... I am just simply sharing my opinion.
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No offence taken to any posts. I believe everybody IS entitled to his or her own point of view. I love listening. Whether or not I choose to take it as a value of my life is another story. But I still think before I commence on an important part of the movie that I hear out some people in the community rather than doing something out of ignorance. If I choose to do something negative, at least I know that it is negative in comparisons to ignorance.

Nobody forgives ignorance.
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Re: HI ALL!


Quote:
Originally posted by arkgoth
The Tarot community does have some evil in it. Not in the whole. The majority of you belong to the path of white magick. Many of you use divinity to benefit the lives of themselves and others for the better. But there IS a small fraction of this community that choose to abuse white magick, hence turning it into black magick. And it is my personal values (based on experiences) to expose these people for what they truly are.
Hi Arkgoth, I found this parragraph of great interest. Some of us do use the Tarot for spiritual development, some use it in magik but more times than not is used for neither. Reading tarot is a SKILL, like being artist, writter or storyteller. It is not a magical thing.
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Thanks for correcting me and pointing it out to everybody. I believe that divinatory tools have some form of magic in it. Maybe not the kind of magic that copperfield or criss angel uses, but a different form. Majority of you may disagree with me on that...sorry, just personal beliefs
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Arkgoth,
Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying. Are you saying that you intend to have evil winning the day in the finale of your already admitted negative cinematic portrayal of the tarot?

BTW Diana, I don't understand entirely where you are coming from in your last post? The last time I looked England was in Europe too. You seem as het up on this thread as I was on another, but I congratulate you in saying it a bit more eloquently than I did

allibee
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Re: HI ALL!


Quote:
Originally posted by arkgoth
However, one thing that that I aim to do in this films, as I did with my previous film is to not glamourize evil as many mainstream filmmakers do (george lucas does it too....anakin skywalker) but to expose evil in all its hideouness and ugliness. For every good, there is an equal evil. For it takes 2 hands to clap in a force like our world.
Perhaps taking a different understanding gained by a culture more ancient than many of our own: Oriental belief systems, wherein things are not looked at as good or evil but as two opposing parts of a whole, the yin and the yang. There is much talk in your post about battles and one side vanquishing the other, which is a large part of the Christian tradition. Have you noticed, in the world, as you say yourself, there is always the opposite to each side? If neither is ever vanquished, then why battle? Accept that everything has its opposite and use each responsibly.

I agree with you about the glorification of violence and the perversion herein, but not with your example. Yes, Anakin is the good who becomes evil, but I think Lucas' point is to show that evil does many times come from the best of intentions, and that it resides in everyone. The most evil people often deny their evil nature and thus feed it through ignoring it. Light needs dark. Music is made in the rests between the notes. When you talk about your point in exposing evil I am reminded of Oliver Stone's Natural Born Killers, a movie that I study with my Adult High School students. I stress that the evil in that movie is not Mickey and Mallory Knox, who are actually victims of it, but it is the Media (at one point the words "Too Much T.V." are splashed across their chests). Stone was appalled at the casualness of violence in the media and saw us becoming desensitized to it. I love his movie for its in-your-face portrayal of the grossness of media violence. If you perform this feat as well as he, then I think your movie will be wonderful. The problem is, most people only have a sense of the evil side of tarot. I just wanted you to be aware of that. Like you, I feel my job is done if one student gains understanding, but I always seek the higher road, the second person.
Quote:
The Tarot community does have some evil in it. Not in the whole. The majority of you belong to the path of white magick. Many of you use divinity to benefit the lives of themselves and others for the better. But there IS a small fraction of this community that choose to abuse white magick, hence turning it into black magick. And it is my personal values (based on experiences) to expose these people for what they truly are.
Another misperception I see you having here is that tarot is about magick. Perhaps many of us who study this see as being about self-enlightenment, rather than some kind of mystical magick. But of course, that is not at all very cinematic.

Quote:
If you think my film is all about the path of evil, then you are wrong. In every evil, there is a good, and although my film acknowledges that and shows the other side as well, it also shows people that evil is more subceptible to win for now. Many people do not understand and treat evil lightly because of the misconception with mainstream popular beliefs that one day, good will prevail. Well, the truth is, evil prevails now, because our misconception has made us lazy and put too much faith in the intangible force of good to do our job for us. Unless we do something about it, evil WILL win. A battle is fought with 2 forces, not by 1 force and 1 faith. Ask yourself...what are you gonna do today?
As a teacher, as an example, as a human being, I am going to live by my beliefs, by my understanding that evil is largely from misunderstanding and use of cruelty stemming from ignorance of others and of the fact that one is living in a society where one is living with and dependent on others. That one's existence and health depend on the world's existence and health, that it is not "every man for himself" but "every man with his brother" (forgive the sexism, I am using an older adage). I accept darkness as being the absence of light, and darkness also defines light. If all were light, then we would soon be blind, but too much darkness is in need of enlightenment. I will shine my light.
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Quote:
Originally posted by arkgoth
I believe that divinatory tools have some form of magic in it.
The magic lies within the person using the tool, not in the tool iteself. Tarot cards are tools.
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Pretty much, I believe that at some point, people DO need to understand that evil CAN win. Too many times, we have been delusioned that good will prevail over evil. I know it is a very extremely unpopular convention, but it is something that I choose to admit in my life.
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Quote:
Originally posted by arkgoth
Pretty much, I believe that at some point, people DO need to understand that evil CAN win. Too many times, we have been delusioned that good will prevail over evil.
Yes, folktale propogated that, at a time when lives were dismal, when a child coming out of infancy came near to a miracle, folk tale was necessary to stress that "happily ever after" was conceivable. I agree that imbalance is possible, and that evil can rule, but I still do not go with the win/lose viewpoint. Both sides, I believe, are here, were here, and ever will be here. It is the balance that is important, and if you were replying to me, I never stated I am sitting back and letting some outside GOOD triumph. I care to be part of the solution.
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