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Xavier 
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Join Date: 14 Nov 2003
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Reviving the stury group - The tale


Hello.

The full story if this tale is available at the wonderful website "sacred texts". I will not post it here because this would ruin the formatting.

You will find it by following this link :
http://sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/cft/cft19.htm

So, what do you think about this card ?
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Old 05-06-2009 Limited time only: Chat live with a Tarot reader now and get 50% off!     Top   #11
Xavier 
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My comments on the card


While I enjoyed reading the tale, I found it slightly less evocative in terms of tarot meaning. I'm sure others will disagree and I am looking forward to reading them. Some things have nevertheless striken me:

* As the book points out, this character is a mix between a powerful magician and a trickster. As such, he is the perfect synthesis of the Rider’s Magician and the Marseille’s Bateleur. But because the tricks he plays messes deeply (but during a limited time) with the victim’s mind, he seems to even share a connection with the Moon.

* This magician also had the ability to force his will into people (the wife would kick her hare-husbands to the hounds), something perfectly in tune with the traditional magician.

* Instead of symbols of the four suits, this card only features a sword and a “staff” (actually a flower, but the story states that he uses it as a wand) and the silver pieces of the story can be suitable substitutes for pentacles. Has anyone seen a cup ? Indeed, emotions are not a prominent feature of the tale. Instead we find the deep imagination of the storyteller (swords), material security at stake (pentacles) and a powerful magician (staffs).
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Onyx 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xavier
* As the book points out, this character is a mix between a powerful magician and a trickster. As such, he is the perfect synthesis of the Rider’s Magician and the Marseille’s Bateleur.

I think that this is a very good observation and likely for me the strongest reason to use this story for this card's meaning. I will be interested to see what the book has to say.

I have to agree with someone earlier in the thread that the choice of image from the story is a bit weaker to me than other scenes in the story. I think the image of them playing dice might have been a good choice. But I have only seen web image scans so I will reserve my final judgement until the my copy comes next week.

The idea of the Magician as a gambler, trickster and illusionist is compelling but I like the fact that he is someone that you can't quite trust as well. In the story the man seemed unassuming but there was something that seemed to cause those in the story to not see beyond the illusion of the image to accept the power underneath.

It is a good message of the Magician that looks can be decieving and that trust should not be given too quickly.

Onyx.
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Old 05-06-2009 Limited time only: Chat live with a Tarot reader now and get 50% off!     Top   #13
Xavier 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onyx
It is a good message of the Magician that looks can be decieving and that trust should not be given too quickly.

Onyx.
This is a very challenging idea for me, as the story makes me draw the opposite conclusion.

To me, it is inviting trust, rather than warning against deceit. This magician is difficult to trust, because at first, he seems cruel and he appears to delight in the displeasure of others after the tricks he plays. But in the end we see he meant well and actually has saved the storyteller's postion with the king.

So my interpretation of the message would be to not distrust people or events who seem to cause you harm, because there might be a valuable reward (or lesson) in the end of the process.

Interesting to see how the same story can be interpreted in opposite ways (probably both valid) by different people.
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Old 07-06-2009 Limited time only: Chat live with a Tarot reader now and get 50% off!     Top   #14
Onyx 
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Xavier, I compeletly see your point. I was being a bit short sighted as I was only speaking about the moments in the story when the beggar was being underestimated and he was able to pull out his "magic tricks" on people. You are absolutely right about the fact that there is theme to the story that even though things get bad there is a place for trusting.

I am not sure how I will work that aspect into the interpretation of the card but I will always think of the trickery and mastery that was shown in the story.

Onyx.
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Master_Margarita 
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I was interested in the statement in the companion book that there are not many magician characters in Central European fairytales and that magic-makers there tend to be witches and fairies, but Celtic tales have many magician-tricksters. I agree with the poster above who points out the prominence of Loki in Scandinavian myth.

Something about the fact that the storyteller must tell the King a story every night makes me link this story in my mind to Scherezade, and I can't seem to break that link. She was a bit of a trickster herself, although the primary trickster in this Celtic tale is the grey beggarman/Angus of the Bruff.

M_M~



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IDS: Fairytale (MRP) Oracle: Deck of Curious Design
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Sar 
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Anyway, perhaps beside the subject, but I wanted to add a link to a peculiar figure in norwegian fairy tales as well, both a trickster and a fool, meet the ash ladd :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Askeladden
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