Knight of Cups as Feelings

caridwen

hehe - no, certainly the Knight of Cups does not represent mature and balanced action - but as a knight, he does represent some kind of action: of the more ecstatic and impulsive kind, based on his emotions

For me the Page of Cups would predict this kind of action since the Page is by tradition a messenger and delivers a message of the heart. Even the Two of Cups since the male (representing action) actually touches the woman as they exchange cups.

The Knight of Cups is the unrequited lover of troubadour poetry doing anything he can to win his lady love's heart even though he knows he is honour bound to do nothing concrete about it. He will sigh, write tomes of poetry, even do great deeds in her honour all the time knowing they can never be together. (It's not without irony that troubadour songs were usually monophonic).

"I
Quan lo rosinhols escria
ab sa part la nueg e.l dia,
yeu suy ab ma bell'amia
jos la flor,
tro la gaita de la tor
escria: "Drutz, al levar!
Qu'ieu vey l'alba e.l jorn clar."

"I
While the nightingale sings,
both night and day,
I am with my beautiful
beneath the flowers,
until our sentry from the tower
cries: "Lovers, get up!
for I clearly see the sunrise and the day."
 

Sophie

Well, as a matter of fact, it's known that quite a few Troubadours did consummate their love with the fair lady (or man, since there were female Troubadours) - and some went as far as writing about it in poetry. All very romantic too. Yet they still say "something" remains out of reach. They might capture the lady's heart and her body - but her soul remains out of touch...

It's almost as though this Knight had a compulsive need for something to remain beyond - just ahead of him, drawing him on. That is what spurs him to action. That elusive soul he cannot hold...

(thank you for posting that beautiful poem, Caridwen. I love Troubadour poetry, especially in Occitan...such gorgeous words and rythm).
 

Pao

Fudugazi said:
In an outcome position in a relationship reading, I would say that the Knight of Cups brings a new quality of feeling and love to the relationship, possibly a very romantic episode, and depending on the state of the relationship - anything from asking someone on a date to a proposal.
yes sorry thats what I meant, I didn't phrase my question correctly (what a surprise! arrrggg lol) the outcome position of a relationship reading. so it will be a turning point with more openess and maybe more communication as well. Interesting. well I do like this knight better than the rest I think of him as prince charming sorta guy. I love your views on it Fudugazi, thanx for clarifing it a for me :)
 

caridwen

Fudugazi said:
Well, as a matter of fact, it's known that quite a few Troubadours did consummate their love with the fair lady (or man, since there were female Troubadours) - and some went as far as writing about it in poetry. All very romantic too. Yet they still say "something" remains out of reach. They might capture the lady's heart and her body - but her soul remains out of touch...

It's almost as though this Knight had a compulsive need for something to remain beyond - just ahead of him, drawing him on. That is what spurs him to action. That elusive soul he cannot hold...

(thank you for posting that beautiful poem, Caridwen. I love Troubadour poetry, especially in Occitan...such gorgeous words and rythm).

I'm not talking about troubadours but the knights and their fair ladies that they are singing about! And yes, I'm sure one or two knights consummated their 'love' with the lady in question but by doing so they would have degraded and dishonoured themselves within their social hierarchy. It's why they were forced to revert to poems and song to rid themselves of their pent up feeling.

The tale of Lancelot and Genevieve is the ultimate in this type of courtly love. According to Malory in the Death of Arthur:

"But nowdays men can nat love sevennyght but they must have all their desyres. That love may nat endure by reson, for where they bethe sone accorded and hasty, heete sone keelyth. And ryght so faryth the love nowadayes, sone hote sone colde. Thys ys no stabylyte. But the olde love was not so. For men and women coulde love togydirs seven yearys, and no licoures lustis was betwyxte, and then was love triuthe and faythefulnes. And so in lyke wyse was used such love in kynge Arthurs dayes. (Malory, 649)"

The only kind of love possible is one without "licoures lustis, " or one that is 'pure' and therefore unconsummated. This kind of love is the Knight of Cups', forever tortured by the one true love he cannot have for even if he could have her, he would have betrayed everything he is. Indeed, later on in the text the Hermit condemns Lancelot for his lechery which is why he cannot have the Sangreal:

"So thou, sir Lancelot, whan the Holy Grayle was bought before the, He founde in the no fruit, nother goof thought nother good wylle, and defoulded with lechory. "Sertes," seyde Lancelot, "all that ye have seyde ys trew..."

For according to the times, Lancelot had already committed adultery in his heart by lusting after his friend's wife. And it is through their unrequited 'love' that brings about the downfall of Arthur's Kingdom and his death.

Therefore our Knight is tortured by his obsession, his unrequited love and the fact that he cannot act for fear of the consequences. He is the adolescent boy who sits at the back of the class dreaming about the girl sitting next to him but never tells her how he feels. He lays awake at night obsessing about her, writes poetry and songs to her but can do nothing about it because his best friend likes her. These codes of honour are still present within friendships.

Note in the Druidcraft for example, that our Knight is stationary .
 

Sophie

Lancelot and Guinevere certainly consummated their love. As did Tristan and Iseult. Their love was beautiful, pure - and consummated. But the lady always remained somewhat out of touch, because in both cases she was married to the Knight's overlord.

In life - well, all I can answer is that your knight of Cups is tortured by unrequited love, and mine acts...I don't think we are going to get much further than that. Both aspects exist in him, and both should be honoured in this thread.
 

starrystarrynight

Fudugazi said:
Lancelot and Guinevere certainly consummated their love. As did Tristan and Iseult. Their love was beautiful, pure - and consummated. But the lady always remained somewhat out of touch, because in both cases she was married to the Knight's overlord.
This is it, exactly (I think). Whether or not consummated (and I can just as easily see this Knight holding back due to inner or outer constraints), this Knight may have those feelings of love and romanticism, but they come with reservations. Again, those reservations may come from within himself or from within the outer situation (such as the examples that Fudge gave.)

So, this is a person who may well be falling in love, but there is a feeling of discomfort on his part about it. And again, this "discomfort" may come from his own inner reservations or the outside situation, itself.

A man/person who is comfortably/happily falling in love would be more represented by the King of Cups, I think.
 

Bronwyn1

I'm curious, but can a woman be the knight of cups?
 

starrystarrynight

nancyk said:
I'm curious, but can a woman be the knight of cups?
Any of the courts can represent either sex.
 

Bridget

Fudugazi said:
It's almost as though this Knight had a compulsive need for something to remain beyond - just ahead of him, drawing him on.

Is it a compulsive need? Or is it a deep enough sensitivity to recognize that no matter how close he and his beloved become, something will always remain beyond? Even in a happy, loving relationship, neither partner can ever know or understand everything about the other person. What makes the Knight of Cups different from the other knights is that he yearns for total connection while knowing he can never have it. I think we all have moments where we feel this way.

I also see the Knc as the knight in shining armor, but I think that image may be projected on someone else. For instance, I used to view someone as the Knc in that sense. Later I realized I was romanticizing him, and that I was the one acting like the Knight of Cups.

Not all romanticizing is a bad thing. Sometimes a person who didn't seem extraordinary when we first met them becomes special as we get to know them. I think that's the Knc at work. He's the part of ourselves for whom love is blind.
 

casia

What sign do you think he is.... Scorpio???? or Cancer????