*Chiron*

Hello

I am looking at my teenage son's chart and notice he has Sun, Venus and Chiron conjunct in Scorpio (Chiron is sitting right on top of his sun at 23deg). Have been reading that *hard* aspects to Chiron can be challenging. I wondered, are hard aspects mainly oppositions and squares or are there other aspects to be considered? I noticed he has a couple of squares but i think these are to outer planets rather than personal.

Any info would be greatly appreciated as i am trying to gain some understanding through these difficult years and hopefully to help him

Thanks! x

The conjunction itself is a hard aspect too. Plus squares and oppositions. If he has the conjunction natally, there is a good chance he's been given the tools and the understanding to deal with this energy at birth. I'm saying this because I have conjunctions between planets in my natal and having them given at birth makes it easier to go through the transiting hard aspects in the future. But overall, Chiron is not among the personal planets, so it's up to you if you will consider him or not. I can't say Chiron has played a significant role by transit in my life although his position in the natal chart truly describes some wounds I've had in the past.

In addition, hard aspects to any planet are challenging. It's my belief that's why they are there - to challenge us and teach us something.

Thanks so much Ronia for your input...most helpful. Are you able to give examples of the wounds you mention, or are they too personal, no prob if they are

Ronia gives a very good account of the situation. Conjunctions with the Sun, should be taken as hard. The reason for this is that the Sun outshines any body that is within the 'normal' range for a conjunction - even the Moon. Traditional Astrologers call this 'Combust' and it basically means that the 'light' from that planet doesn't get through - its strength is diminished.

Now with the outers and Chiron, they are not visible anyway, so it would be possible to argue that the Solar Conjunction does not weaken them further.

Chiron was discovered in the mid 70's, it's not a planet but a 'centaur like object'. It's orbit is highly eccentric, more so than Pluto's and given that the prevailing astrological orthodoxy was that myth is the guide to astrological meaning, the role of the wounded healer was given to it, from the mythical centaur of the same name.

In the period since it's discovery questions have been raised about it's inclusion in astrological interpretation, even by those who use the outer two planets and Pluto. For those who were entering Astrology at the time it still holds a sway and many new students who feel that newly discovered bodies should be added do make use of it.

The problem is that Astrology has only used myth as a basis in the recent past, there's no evidence that astrological meaning is in anyway related to it, except possibly that the myths were influenced by the planets.

My own Chiron is conjunct my IC by about 2 and a half degrees and is conjunct Venus by just over one degree. Like Ronia, I've never noticed any significant events have a prominent Chiron, though from my chart it ought to show up as being significant. Does it show any 'wounds' I need to heal? Well not really, my home childhood was good and my adult home life has been good. The only argument I can see for it in this role is if I take the fouth House as a significator of family in the widest sense in which case I have developed an interest in genealogy and there are some family issues which I have discovered and perhaps at a psychic level have resolved. At the least it could be said trhat I have developed 'roots'. Now is that Chiron, or is it Venus, which is also conjunct the IC and squared by it's ruler Mars and by Pluto (which I tend to dismiss) both by 1 degree 40 minutes.

strangebrew said:

Thanks so much Ronia for your input...most helpful. Are you able to give examples of the wounds you mention, or are they too personal, no prob if they are

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My Chiron is in the 3rd. I've never had a good family, relatives, brothers, sisters, etc. My most serious wounds came from the people in this same environment to the point where I just shut the door and never looked back.

In regards to your son, Scorpios (I am one too) are not sociable in general, we are not the most cheerful people, we are often eccentric. So, I don't see a reason for worry. Let him be. I've never been easy. And I'm still alive and well. LOL

Minderwiz said:

Ronia gives a very good account of the situation. Conjunctions with the Sun, should be taken as hard. The reason for this is that the Sun outshines any body that is within the 'normal' range for a conjunction - even the Moon. Traditional Astrologers call this 'Combust' and it basically means that the 'light' from that planet doesn't get through - its strength is diminished.

Now with the outers and Chiron, they are not visible anyway, so it would be possible to argue that the Solar Conjunction does not weaken them further.

Click to expand...

I think it doesn't. I have my Sun conjunct Uranus and honestly, this Uranus is very obvious. LOL Even for people who don't know astrology much. The combo Sun in this sign and Uranus has been a bomb for all my life. It's pushing me all the time, it doesn't give me a break. I also like technics, electrics, airplanes and clouds, and storms, and tornadoes and all extremes of air, astrology, brain games, not to mention that everything and everyone starts to feel boring in a short while, I'm restless, innovative, don't like the usual ways and the ordinary people, always a rebel since I was a child and almost always in trouble... It's a long story but I can't imagine this Uranus is combust or I don't know what he would do if he wasn't. LOL

I checked the chart of a man I know to refresh my memory. He, like me, has his Sun conjunct Uranus too and almost all I wrote about myself is true about him too though it's a bit more subtle as he is an earth sign and in general, he is more controlled. But he also has Mercury conjunct his Sun and he has always had very big issues talking, communicating, expressing himself. Thus the combust Mercury is very obvious with him. He's been dealing with this for years. It makes me think the personal planets are more affected by the Sun's rays. Just a thought.

Of course it might also have something to do with the mutually applying close opposition between Mercury and Jupiter conjunct the third/ninth axis. Jupiter is Retrograde and both planets would be Peregrine but for a mutual reception through Terms. Both planets are accidental malefics in your chart, Mercury is Lord 8 (and Lords 5 and 6) and Jupiter is Lord 12. Mercury is astrology, communication and technical devices of all kinds. Jupiter is the bringer of rain and storms (Jupiter Pluvius) and being Retrograde will not quite be his normal jolly self - misdirected energy and expansion. Both are Sanguine planets, so there's that urge to socialise and gather knowledge in anything and everything, but boredom will soon set in.

The ninth/third axis is the axis of knowledge and education - both the conventional and unconventional types - and with an unconventional Jupiter, things are really going to oscillate there.

Now Uranus may contribute to this through it's close conjunction with the Sun, but if you think about it, Uranus is simply an amalgam o debilitatedf Mercury and Jupiter in it's nature so a further amplification and echo.

Wow, Minderwiz, I never knew all these things about these two guys in my chart! Thanks a bunch for the info! However, I've never really seen Mercury as a malefic... To tell you the truth, he has brought me very nice things, I also gave birth during Mercury positive transit and he's always represented my son, I feel his transits related to my son very well. Jupiter is 50/50. Previous two returns were highly beneficial and very Jupiterian, this one was a bit more subtle.

Since Mercury and Jupiter are not only lords 8/12 but also lords 5/11 isn't this better? Shouldn't I take this into account as well? I'm asking because, as I said, Mercury has brought very nice things and 5th house stuff while Jupiter has often helped me achieve a dream as 11th house ruler. I tend to see the 11th as the older astrologers saw it, the big fortune house, not so much as all these modern friends, associations and so on.

Planets do not represent the same things in every instance and in every moment of your life, so Mercury can indeed represent your son (5th House) and your illnesses (6th House) but in no way does this imply that your son makes you ill

It simpy means that at some points in your life you may suffer from Mercury related illness, or there is a Mercury related element to your illness. At other times Mercury may indicate your son, or your sense of and enjoyment of fun and your approach to higher education, or foreign travel (Mercury on the 9th cusp) Exactly how Mercury will manifest depends on a wide range of natal and transitting factors but can usually be spotted, if only in hindsight.

Here we are looking at one relationship in your chart...the opposition between Jupiter and Mercury and how it might play out....in other words, it,s not Mercury or Jupiter individually but Mercury and Jupiter together and the clash of principles they represent. That opposition can also manifest in different ways at different times but it will have impact as one of the notable features of your chart.

Mercury is the stronger of the two and has a mutual reception with its ruler Venus. Venus has no aspect to Jupiter but it is in the same degree and inconjunct Jupiter, so that will add to the mix. I

'Malefic' planets are not 'evil' or 'bad' in a modern sense. They simply do not always function in your best interests (even if you think they do). For example Venus ruling your fifth and sixth, might indicate a love of partying and overdoing the drink, leading to a hangover (6th House) or even worse if done over a long period of time. Mercury is not inherently malefic, being accidentally so simply indicates that Mercury activities may not always work to your advantage. The Mercury/Jupiter Opposition is likely to add a 'troubled' dimension, in the sense that it might get you into trouble through clashes with social norms (Jupiter) which you see as not being based on sensible principles (opposition to Mercury) and therefore should be challenged. This may indeed get you into trouble

Thanks guys for all this info!!!

Will try and get my head around it and digest!!

I find it interesting that my son has a loaded 6th house and he has very very challenging eating patterms, he also, as a younger boy, had a bowel problem, which he announced recently was *all in his mind*. He is also meticulous about cleanliness and displays lots of the virgoan tendancies ~ his teachers tell us *he tries too hard* at school. He suffers lots of nervous tension at times. I feel his 6th house is very very significant to him in his chart



Thanks again!