XI. Lust - Woman on a lion

Always Wondering

Forgive me for my impudence, but this visions thing is something that still gives me an uneasy feeling with the BoT: How do we know whether his visions are really archetypal, and not drugs induced? Or how likely is A.C. to have real religious visions in that case?

I think you should ask this about everybody, including yourself. Crowley encouraged sceptisism, case in point the intro to Liber O.

AW
 

yogiman

I think you should ask this about everybody, including yourself. Crowley encouraged sceptisism, case in point the intro to Liber O.

Good idea, as long as it doesn't cost me precious time and money.
 

ravenest

Forgive me for my impudence, but this visions thing is something that still gives me an uneasy feeling with the BoT: How do we know whether his visions are really archetypal, and not drugs induced? Or how likely is A.C. to have real religious visions in that case?

Why cant drug induced vision be archetypal?

Do religious visions IYO include shamanic ones ?
 

ravenest

I am realizing now that I don't need to be ashamed about any question.

Certainly! Do not be ashamed, especially here!
During the golden dawn debacle there was a dispute among some members whether the cipher manuscripts were forged. Crowley demanded from Westcott that he sent the manuscripts to the the british museum for scrutiny.

History is repeating itself.



However I fail to see the connection with this statement and the thread ???
 

ravenest

One should not place one's absolute faith in a particular religion or occult society. Rather, one should try to find the truth therein by means of experience and experiment. The cipher manuscripts may have been fake, but that does not necessarily invalidate their content.

:thumbsup:

Zen master points at the Moon ... do you look at his finger, or the Moon ?
 

ravenest

Good idea, as long as it doesn't cost me precious time and money.

??? Why not ... we spend 'precious time and money' answering your questions ... treat yourself! Spend some precious time and money on your own development of understanding as well .
 

Zephyros

:thumbsup:

Zen master points at the Moon ... do you look at his finger, or the Moon ?

I look, obviously, at my own moon, since his and mine are quite different. The Master points it out to me, as I may not have noticed it otherwise, and by doing so he creates a moon and makes a present of it to me.

http://sujith_v.tripod.com/stories/moons.txt

A bit long, but manages to convey this idea in a fairy tale. "Many Moons" by James Thurber
 

yogiman

However I fail to see the connection with this statement and the thread ???

I find it impolite to turn this one into a separate thread.

??? Why not ... we spend 'precious time and money' answering your questions ... treat yourself! Spend some precious time and money on your own development of understanding as well .

What I mean is that I have seen a lot of swindling going on in the New Age domain, and apart from losing time and money, your FAITH and reverence are harmed.
 

Zephyros

I find it impolite to turn this one into a separate thread.
On the contrary, it is the custom here to keep threads on a single coherent subject, with new threads being opened for different ones.

What I mean is that I have seen a lot of swindling going on in the New Age domain, and apart from losing time and money, your FAITH and reverence are harmed.

If I understand you correctly, you're looking for proof? Proof in the divinatory power of Tarot, proof that the Law was received supernaturally, proof that Crowley had visions (unless those visions were drug-induced, then they're not vision-y "enough")?
 

yogiman

If I understand you correctly, you're looking for proof? Proof in the divinatory power of Tarot, proof that the Law was received supernaturally, proof that Crowley had visions (unless those visions were drug-induced, then they're not vision-y "enough")?

I am quite confident about the divinatory power of tarot, though it seems to me that a lot depends on the operator.