Forgiveness and Thelema??

ravenest said:

Some of you might think I'm mixing apples and oranges, mixing up forget and forgive, yet in my experience, a lot of the time, those that 'forgive', 'forget' and round and round they go on the wheel having the same shit thing happen to them (offen by the same person) over and over again.

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Yeah, but they're mixing their apples and oranges, too - or throwing the baby out with the bath water.

You can forgive and forget, in which case no one learns the lessons.

You can forgive but not forget, in which case you're calmer in yourself and also wiser.

You can neither forgive nor forget, in which case you're going to be bitter and suspicious (suspicion being the sour spinster sister of wisdom).

Or, if you're really dumb, you can forget but not forgive, in which case you're going to be perpetually unhappy and never learn why or not to get yoruself in the same place again.

\m/ Kat

Sometimes I dont think I know what forgivness is. Or why we needed it in the first place. Perhaps its because someones actions caused a reation in US and we need to clear it? The reaction (or a specific type of reaction) should be there, so we learn and dont forget the lesson. I think inappropriate reactions relating to other parts of our outlook or psyche are what people are trying to clear with the concept of forgivness?

When did forgivness start? (okay - i know DUMB question) Was it always there like this ... and in other cultures or has it risen to significance the more others trash those they see as weaker or inferior to themselves.

Forgivness seems to imply a state of mind that was faulty in its perception of what happened to it in the first place .... a bit like 'karmic punishment'.

ravenest said:

Forgivness seems to imply a state of mind that was faulty in its perception of what happened to it in the first place .... a bit like 'karmic punishment'.

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Or, coming back to what cardlady22 said, a faulty or inappropriate expectation. Perhaps even a "lust of result"?

\m/ Kat

ravenest said:

Learn from the mistake and move on. But dont forgive (forget) the lesson.

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That's it. Extract the lesson from a painful experience, but make sure you move on. Otherwise you end up living in the past. And the sad thing is that even though it's all in the mind, people torment themselves like this throughout their life.

The key is to acknowledge errors and mistakes. Take the lesson on baord. Make any necessary adjustments, and then move on. But don't keep punishing yourself. You can't travel back in time and undo the past. What's done is done. But you can influence what happens next with the wisdom you've already gained.

ravenest said:

"Are you still holding on to that?" I've been asked about some things. ???? What's the point of forgetting important lessons we learn in life?

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Try telling yourself that the next time you have argument with your girlfriend/wife.

I bet all the guys here know what I'm talking about.

Aeon418 said:

Try telling yourself that the next time you have argument with your girlfriend/wife.

I bet all the guys here know what I'm talking about.

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Worse still, try telling yourself that the next time you have argument with your girlfriend AND wife.

I think another issue is that in English we dump ten or twenty things into a box, paste 'Forgiveness' on it and call it a word. Do you 'forgive' a stranger in the same way as you forgive a loved one? An enemy? Are you the one that feels the 'need to forgive' or are you the one that 'needs forgiveness'? What if you need to forgive but the other party feels no need to be forgiven? Or if you need forgiveness but the other party refuses? Or the other party feels you have no need to be forgiven?

What about forgiveness? It depends on the particular situation. I will pardon an enemy if it will not negatively affect me. I certainly wouldn't put myself in a position for another hit afterward though.

It is harder to forgive a loved one because the 'forgiveness' required goes deeper than a mere pardon, but the rewards for it can be far more profound as well. The requirements for a loved one to be 'forgivable' are also a lot higher.

Both are called 'forgiveness' but they don't look or feel the same at all.