78 Weeks: Five Batons

To find out what these threads refer to, please seeThe link above provides suggested dates and links to all threads for this study.

Some amongst us may be working through the deck in a different order, and using different decks.

For more general comments or questions about the 78 weeks, please post in the thread linked above.

Enjoy!

I was rather surprised to find this thread had slid so far down the board and am hoping more people will find the time to participate in this study...

Once again, I spent a week with 3 different versions of the Tarot of Marseilles 5 of Batons propped up between my keyboard and monitor absorbing the images both conciously and unconciously.

With my RWS upbringing, I'd always associated the 5 of Wands with conflict and competition but after spending a week with the 5 of Batons I initially had a bit of trouble finding those sorts of associations. I associate the number 5 with The Pope and batons with passionate thought and activity. These associations provide me with ideas of group effort and cooperation in order to achieve a strongly held goal or to persue a group passion. (Rather a bit like this community). Naturally, with people being people any group effort is from time to time going to be infected with competition and/or conflict. Thus it comes around full circle. Oddly enough when the 5 of Wands turns up in my readings for others I often find myself giving advice to find a way to work with others rather than against them.

I attach my version of the 5 of Batons that I've drawn during this week of study.

Hi MT

Really like your card; what you said about people working together shows through in your depiction; how the wands are all yellow but when they 'meet' in the middle, through green, they all become connected and therefore 'one'.

Best wishes

Yaboot

Five of Wands

Universal Waite

Five young men, with five wands / staffs, in an open green field with a clear blue sky behind them, skirmishing with each other.

With a clear blue sky behind them (no clouds), I feel this card does not depict major struggles or problems and is almost like play fighting among adolescents. Being competitive with each other and practising their fighting techniques. This is reinforced I feel also by their attire, being that they are wearing tunics and not any sort of armour etc. Also no one appears to be hurt in anyway and even the expressions on their faces appear to have no real seriousness involved in their actions. However like any play fight with children and any sort of weapons, there is always the risk of someone getting hurt if they are not careful.

I also feel that this card, being wands, can also mean challenges working creatively in a group, where there maybe varying points of view or goals and there have to be squabbles or a sorting out before progress can be made. This of course can mean delays and getting caught up in the battle over the issues and competing against each other instead of working together. When looking closely at the card it does not look like any one person is being attacked by the others and it is just an all in group fray with no real damage or maliceous intent and could almost be looked upon as a sort of testing period in readiness for more serious battles in the future.

Thoth

The Thoth 5 of Wands is called "Strife", which has four crossed wands, overlaying central flames in the middle and then the fifth wand is larger and more dominant looking which is over the top of the other wands and flames. All of this is on a background of bright yellow, which indicates to me that there is thought and intellect involved here as well.

The fifth (bigger) wand looks to me like it is showing its strength or dominance over the others and the fire (creative situation). It depends how you look at it but if you are the fifth wand, then maybe it means that you are faced with competion from a number of other sources that has to be overcome and then this ultimately makes you stronger and more in control. Or if you look at it from the perspective of the four wands, then the fifth wand can be seen as some sort of block or large obstacle that has to be overcome to proceed further. Both of these scenarios make sense with the naming of the card as "Strife".

CreativeFire

I am glad this was found

Whenever I have the 5 of batons/wands shows up usually means a dispute. Yet, in Rider-Waite and those patterned after it, the boys do not seem angry. Youth is flexible and able to turn adversity to its advantage. This seems to imply a time for comprimise. Maybe there is a need to give up something or sacrifice. Since wands is a suit of action this does not say to do nothing. --Tao

Radiant Rider-Waite

Five of Wands

LWB
A pose of youths are brandishing staves, as if in sport or strife. It is mimic warfare.
Divinatory Meaning
Imitation, for example, sham fight,the strenuous competition and struggle of the search after riches and fortune. Hence some attibutions say that is a card of gold, gain and opulence.

My Impressions
In some ways the card looks like that something has been built, or at least the framework is in place, and at the same time there does seem to be a bit of a battle going on. By looking at the card, it is quite hard to determine which one it is. So, by saying that, in some sense it could be seen that there maybe some struggle and conflict in the process of building on the creative project, venture, job, career, romantic relationship, or whatever this could be. At any rate, it indicates that there is a lot of effort that is needed one way or another.

Perhaps the struggle and conflict that could be going on is internal, and at the same time it could be with other people, or perhaps even a situation or circumstance. In that respect, there seems to be something in which is being strived for, and it could be seen that there is "You are either with me or against me. If you are against me, then get out of my way". In some respect that something that could be done that doesn't meet the approval of other people, but there is a sense of stubbornness and one-eyed opinion in the sense that "what I say goes" or "I am right and you are wrong".

There are certain things that we go through in life that can be considered difficulties and obstacles. You can either be a victor or a victim in this situation. You can let obstacles and difficulties stop you in your tracks, and going through like looking, acting, sounding and feeling like the victim. Or you can take on these obstacles and difficulties head on, and in the process learning through getting these struggles and conflicts which would make you stronger and wiser in the process. I think this card is saying just that, even though you may have whatever life has to throw at you, you can either just give up and just going through the motions of living, or you can fight through these obstacles and difficulties so you can make the most out of your life and be the best sort of person you can possibly be, at whatever this maybe associated with. Another way of looking at this are you are going to allow circumstances and situations dictate your direction in life, or are you going to dictate the circumstances and situations that happen to you in your life so you can get the advantage of that.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Golden Tarot of Klimt

5 of Wands

LWB
Preparation for a confrontation, sexual wants and desire to learn.

My Impressions
A naked woman standing with one foot resting on the shin of her other leg, one had on her thigh, the other hand on her upper arm, with the arm crossing her chest, her eyes closed and a slight smile on her lips. Makes me thing that she is in a position where she feels vulnerable, the fact that she is "exposing" something but at the same time attempting, but not really succeeding, in "covering up". It seems to indicate contrasts and contradictions as her hair is done in an elaborate style with some intricate headwear, like some sort of headband or tiara, which seems strange for a naked woman to have her hair like that. Other than that not sure!

Five of Wands - Revelations Tarot
First impressions
A rather violent and perhaps over-active card;.

From the book
Upright
The youths scuffle wands playfully, preparing themselves for future battles.
You will be entering a period where little games or tasks will help you prepare for the future. New skills that will test you and help you grow will present themselves. You may be helping out a friend in need, only to find yourself faced with the same situation in the future. You could also be engaging in new activities that may help you further down the road in your career.
In situations, present experience will be an indication of what is to come in the future. What would seem like practice runs or trivial times will eventually amount to something important later down the track. Enjoy this period and learn from it for the sake of your future.

Reversed
Tension in the air causes arguments between the two as they wave their fists at each other.
The conflict is no longer playful. Arguments will arise and the atmosphere around you will be tense and serious. Others may take things too seriously and decisions may be harder to reach or situations to resolve. There will be struggles experienced and difficult situations to work through.
In terms of these situations, most will arise from differences of opinions or miscommunication. The fiery situation will only escalate if fuel is thrown in. Focus on the issues and work toward resolution before egos and feelings overrun the situation.

Images and Symbolism
This card acts to give advice and warn.
The youths fight a mock battle to sharpen their skills and wit. They practice for the real battles of life. The advice here is to prepare by means of practice and learning new skills.
On the reverse, the youths argue violently and vocally. Their energies run wild around them as their threats rise with their anger. The warning here is of arguments that can escalate to disruption.
Color: warm, golden hues; associated with Leo.

Traditional meanings
Upright: Opposition needing creative thought to counter. Unavoidable conflict, tests to pass. Upheaval leaving nothing secure. The prize must be fought for.

Reversed: Avoidable litigation, fraud, defeat through trickery.

My impressions:
Upright
Three pony-tailed women seem to be engaged in some kind of martial arts with staves. They wear gold robes and purple leggings. Behind them flames and the same roiling gold sky as so many cards in this suit.

Reversed
The other two women (of five !) are wearing red tailcoats and the same purple leggings (the card actually has some of the clothing shared between both ends.) They are fighting, shouting at each other, threatening.

My take
This card suggest the dichotomy between fighting FOR things and fighting AGAINST them. Co-operation, even in conflict, can achieve. Martial arts are not unconstructive and require both partners to play fair, which is a form of co-operation. They also have a set series of tests t o pass in order to progress. The reverse figures are just shouting obscenities which will get them nowhere.

All the cards from this deck can be viewed here.

Just joining this study group for the first time, and I really apreciate the insight of others on this card!

I'm using the Wheel of Change. The card shows 5 burning candles, a white one in the center, a green one above, yellow below, red to the left and blue to the right.

My first impression of this card is the expression of energy spent in cooperation with others, and the use of all of the strengths of diverse people with diverse abilities to work towards common goals.

It reminds me of the last lines in the movie Whale Rider, if you've seen it. The little girl is riding in a boat with her grandfather, and the whole tribe is either rowing, or participating in some way. She talks about using the strength of all of her people to move forward. In context, she is referring to avoiding the mistake of excluding the contributions of individuals or segments of the community because we can't immediately recognize what that contribution might be.

While I was reading the other posts the image of a barn raising came to mind (I'm sure I read that somewhere at some point about this card), and this version of the card seems very positive and cooperative. Of course, to learn the lessons of the importance of cooperation, some conflict surely takes place along the way, just like in the movie Whale Rider that I don't want to spoil by saying too much about the plot.

I'll add more later. Have to run for the moment.

78 weeks 5 of Wands Druidcraft

Physical Description:
5 kids play around with stave's in mock battle. There is a black hen about to swallow a grain.

Major Symbols
Clashing stave's: Ideas, energy, will , that is in competition with one another
Kid’s Young not mature, wild energy
The Hen this is the key symbol to me. this is the part where Ceridwen actually catches Taliesin.

Element and Number

Fire : Passion, Ideas, Commerce ,Willpower
5: Challenges

Golden Dawn references
Traditional Golden Dawn name : lord of Strife

Days : July 21st – August 1st

Sphere on the Tree of Life
Sphere 5 Geburah. An initial idea or plan is tested against the competing goals of those upon whom you must depend to help bring the vision to reality.

Astrology
Saturn in Leo. The creative and self-confident Leo faces restrictions from the limiting effects of Saturn.

Bringing it all Together:
At first glance this card is about playful competition.. The Fire elements and Leo are about confidence the fact we can win and want to and run into a situation that has challenges not around. But see this card is kind of sneaky ,; The hen picking at the grain is the FINAL time Taliesin changes into anything as Ceridwen catches and eats him., Also the 5’s lord of strife meaning lead me to believe that we can take competition to far.. If you love competition as these kids do then you will not like loosing and do what you must to avoid it.

Possible Meanings
Good: Friendly competition is coming down the road ,challenges will be seen head on.

Bad: Competition taken to far can cause strife pain and loss of friends. this card is a lot like the 5 of swords

Indifferent competitive juices will be flowing .

i

Five of Wands - Week starting 14th Feb 2011

Five of Wands - Hoi Polloi Tarot
Five men, each holding a large stick or wand look as if they're engaged in some sort of struggle.

The Fives
Five comes after the comfort and pause of the four and is also half way through the cards in a suit. The fives show changes, often unexpected that jolt us out of the fours.. Without the fives there may be a danger of stagnation; something needs to happen and with the fives, it's not always something that we like.
The number five in tarot is related to the Major Arcana card, The Hierophant and so even though they show a time of change and therefore maybe stress, they also present us with a learning experience; a time when we can grow.
I like to think of them as 'the blessings in disguise' cards. They may be difficult to live through but they're necessary and they're the type of experiences that we look back on and are glad of because through them we've grown and learned and that, after all is what life's all about.


Five when it's related to Wands / Fire.
So in the 4 of Wands we have a happy time of consolidation and reward. A time when we can look back at what we've begun and the successes we've had and give ourselves a pat on the back.. The 4 of Wands is a time of pause and preparation for what comes next. In the 4 of Wands we are sitting, happily within our comfort zone.
Then along comes the 5 and we're right out of that comfort zone. Something has happened to rock the boat; this maybe competition or aggravation of some sort. It may not be too serious but it's enough to shake us up and make us re-evaluate and realise that things are changing. The decisions of the 6 will get us back on track but meanwhile the 5 can be difficult to deal with but will ultimately be of value.