Can Tarot really foretell the Future ?

lightpers said:

I am currently in the same boat with Nikita, when i did reading for someone, the cards showing all good things between her and her new guy that she wanted to date but eventually the guy was not in love with her. worse case for myself is when i asking for prediction, the cards seems to be not showing future event even when the card in future position in the spread.

for me, maybe tarot is just a mirror of ourselves afterall or maybe my incompetence reading what the cards wanted tell me to be or maybe the cards didn't care at all except our current fate in this life.

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Besides the possibility that a probability doesn't come to pass (which we have talked about here ad nauseam), it can also be a matter of degree. We might draw the Two of Cups regarding a potential relationship and think: "It rocks!", when all it means is a mild attraction between two people; "Love Lite."

Michael Sternbach said:

We might draw the Two of Cups regarding a potential relationship and think: "It rocks!", when all it means is a mild attraction between two people; "Love Lite."

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Good explanation, too high expectations can blurred the mind and readings, right?

frejasphere said:

Nikita - ever so sorry about the delay *fast moving thread - faster moving life*...
You asked what I meant by saying that the 3 readings allowed her to: 'see what she needed to see'... Difficult times, like happy times, are an intrinsic part of life - having a 'fact sheet' on hand (telling us which way things will end up) does not necessarily make things easier or even clearer... Does this mean you 'know' or understand the answers? Of course not. Will you be in trouble if you are asked to elaborate on your answers? Absolutely... The journey provides the experience and knowledge - not the end result.

Oh, and I did say 'not' about karma, fate ... Depending on what each individual believes, these may play a part in the explanation, in the same way as science, psychology or magic would for others - but I wasn't implying that they did

One problem (I find) with a 'complete and accurate' foretelling of the future, is that it would be bound to reveal events such as (our own or a loved one's) death, where pre-knowledge may distract and do more harm than good. Most of us do not have our 'end' date marked in a calendar, for good reason. What good would it do if a reading told you: '3 weeks from today - early morning - heart attack - your time is up'? I know this is taking foretelling the future to the 'end-point' which most readers do not approach, though it does seem relevant on the scale of what 'will' happen...

@Flames talked about people wanting to read a chapter ahead, to gain a sneak peek of the future - The sneak peek is a bit like the 'ol movie trailer... Notice how trailers are edited, spliced and jumbled for dramatic effect? Individual frames are true to the movie, but the editing is done to make us believe certain events are connected, or will happen in a certain way - when in the actual movie (as in life), the story may well unfold in a different way...

A predictive reading is perhaps a way of interpreting the future with all the possibilities, probabilities and variables intact?

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First point you made...no, knowing the answer in advance doesn't necessarily make things easier, but it is certainly much worse when we expect the opposite !!!!
Second point : karma, fate, as in...everything happens for a reason ? Even tarot blunders ? Mhhh...I find that hard to believe...let alone accept...

Death in readings...I simply refuse to talk about it, let alone foretell such an event...

I do like the movie trailer example.

frejasphere said:

Well said Farzon

I spent the last 2 days changing fly-screens... it's a slightly frustrating job for someone impatient (like me) and uninitiated in the the graces of removing and replacing flimsy screens in window frames (like me), as they tend to warp, buckle and bend when you aren't a pro

The job is happily done, but it would have been very distracting to know beforehand that I would break a few along the way (and have to resort to gaffa-tape and other inventive implements (hammer) before they were in place... Point being, that believing that: "I'll knock this job out of the way in a few hours" - actually helped me to see it through. I know myself well enough to know that detours do happen, and I deal with them... But had I known in advance that the job was bigger than I 'wanted' it to be, I may well have put it off for another day.

Thank you trzes and for you thought-provoking and resonating ideas in this thread
On this last post: I know adults who behave the same way

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The point is, nobody forces you to ask tarot about the future if you'd rather not know...the question was rather, why will it mislead you even when you do want to know ??? And when it would save you time and energy to go down a path that will lead you nowhere ? Those who don't want to know, are free not to ask...

Nikita_ said:

You forgot the bit where Prince Charming arrived on a white horse and you rode off into the sunset while little birdies prepared you a picnic.

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Nikita ... I think you may have an issue ...

Why cant some of us have a good happy life in a nice place and appreciate it and enjoy it ?

You seem to think that it is a fantasy, and not achievable .... but it is.

One might not be able to predict one's future .... but one can make one's future.

This could be the issue here ... people 'waiting for a future to unfold', when you can forge out and ahead and make a great future for yourself. I did, and no, I didnt come from a rich family or anything like that. I started out with myself , a backpack and an old motorcycle basically.

If you dont believe that .... then it will never happen.

With all due respect ravenest, that does sound almost too good to be true. The dolphins especially. I can just imagine Disney animals coming up and hanging your laundry while you sing some saccharine song.

On the other hand, everyone find what happiness they can wherever they can. Billions of people in the world, a great many of them not having anything close to what we rich Westerners would consider "normal," let alone "good." But many are happy nonetheless, with humility and appreciation being one of the keys, I think.

I, for example, rather than idyllic woodlands, live in what could, in some circumstances, be called a slum. Instead of dolphins saying hello, I see Sudanese refugees trying to sell me drugs, and I'm on polite speaking terms with a few transgender prostitutes that work on my street. I don't see either of these things as bad, because I've never been happier, either internally or externally. This is my place, these are my people, this is where, for the next few years at least, I belong. Were someone to tell me a few years ago that this is where I would end up, I would laugh, because I did, in fact, come from a well to do family with money, but it was only when I let go of extraneous layers that I could see myself and my surroundings more clearly. I neither need nor want the fairytale, because I really do have something better than Prince Charming.

Ultimately, I think that to accurately foresee the future one must be able to see all possible threads, every end and possibility. Since we can't, it really is a question of probability.

I just wanted to mention that I can relate to and agree with both posts.

Thanks, Ravenest and Closrapexa. I find both posts to be inspirational and touching.

ravenest said:

Nikita ... I think you may have an issue ...

Why cant some of us have a good happy life in a nice place and appreciate it and enjoy it ?

You seem to think that it is a fantasy, and not achievable .... but it is.

One might not be able to predict one's future .... but one can make one's future.

This could be the issue here ... people 'waiting for a future to unfold', when you can forge out and ahead and make a great future for yourself. I did, and no, I didnt come from a rich family or anything like that. I started out with myself , a backpack and an old motorcycle basically.

If you dont believe that .... then it will never happen.

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closrapexa said:

With all due respect ravenest, that does sound almost too good to be true. The dolphins especially. I can just imagine Disney animals coming up and hanging your laundry while you sing some saccharine song.

On the other hand, everyone find what happiness they can wherever they can. Billions of people in the world, a great many of them not having anything close to what we rich Westerners would consider "normal," let alone "good." But many are happy nonetheless, with humility and appreciation being one of the keys, I think.

I, for example, rather than idyllic woodlands, live in what could, in some circumstances, be called a slum. Instead of dolphins saying hello, I see Sudanese refugees trying to sell me drugs, and I'm on polite speaking terms with a few transgender prostitutes that work on my street. I don't see either of these things as bad, because I've never been happier, either internally or externally. This is my place, these are my people, this is where, for the next few years at least, I belong. Were someone to tell me a few years ago that this is where I would end up, I would laugh, because I did, in fact, come from a well to do family with money, but it was only when I let go of extraneous layers that I could see myself and my surroundings more clearly. I neither need nor want the fairytale, because I really do have something better than Prince Charming.

Ultimately, I think that to accurately foresee the future one must be able to see all possible threads, every end and possibility. Since we can't, it really is a question of probability.

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closrapexa said:

With all due respect ravenest, that does sound almost too good to be true. The dolphins especially. I can just imagine Disney animals coming up and hanging your laundry while you sing some saccharine song.

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Its true ... so as not to go further OT :

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?p=4112510&posted=1#post4112510

... not the birds part ... they are more liable to poop on it after I hang up ... or steal the blue clothes pegs (and the washing end up across the yard - thats true too, dont use blue clothes pegs here) ;

http://images.collegemagazine.com/userFiles/gallery/articles/f0a225e9d111018e006a3d01ccbb589b_m.jpg

closrapexa said:

On the other hand, everyone find what happiness they can wherever they can. Billions of people in the world, a great many of them not having anything close to what we rich Westerners would consider "normal," let alone "good." But many are happy nonetheless, with humility and appreciation being one of the keys, I think.

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I observe (and so do others, there have even been a few threads on AT about it) that many Westerners with lots of goodies are not just only unhappy, but depressed. Its probably one of the biggest medical conditions in Western society, yet people with a 'simpler' life stlye can have an inner happiness regardless of material wealth. As you point out, with humility and appreciation.

closrapexa said:

I, for example, rather than idyllic woodlands, live in what could, in some circumstances, be called a slum. Instead of dolphins saying hello, I see Sudanese refugees trying to sell me drugs, and I'm on polite speaking terms with a few transgender prostitutes that work on my street. I don't see either of these things as bad, because I've never been happier, either internally or externally. This is my place, these are my people, this is where, for the next few years at least, I belong. Were someone to tell me a few years ago that this is where I would end up, I would laugh, because I did, in fact, come from a well to do family with money, but it was only when I let go of extraneous layers that I could see myself and my surroundings more clearly. I neither need nor want the fairytale, because I really do have something better than Prince Charming.

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Hey ... it wasnt me that said I was seeking or had a charming prince ! Its another silly paradigm of western 'future grasping' ... another example of just sitting back and hoping and waiting for some artificial ... (oooh dont you start me on that . ) ... thats why I put up the 'Fatima the Tent Maker' story (fiction ! ) in chat here , to show a woman's development and triumph through her own journey and strengths ... there isn't any prince charmings in it ( but men and women benefactors appear ... as well as prince revoltings)

closrapexa said:

Ultimately, I think that to accurately foresee the future one must be able to see all possible threads, every end and possibility. Since we can't, it really is a question of probability.

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And knowing how to increase probabilities .... you know ... magick stuff


P.S.

In the past I had dingy room in a terrace house at the back of Kings Cross in Sydney, shared with a garage band and a prostitute, we ate at the illegal Italian place up the road ($5 for el cheapo of the day) the 4 corners of the intersection had a punk pub, a brothel, a biker house and an Italian gambling den, drugs were dealt every where, it was filthy. But you should have been there on a friday night

I liked it, I was happy . Times change, so do people.

Nikita_ said:

I used to think that seeing the future was mainly what the cards were used for; but over the years, and after a series of negative experiences, both as a client and reading-esp for myself-, I've come to the conclusion that tarot is very good at mirroring the current situation and the actual trends, but often not to be trusted when it comes to predicting the future. I know that there are readers who don't even try to read the future, they simply refuse, and although I strongly disagreed with them in the past, I am beginning to see their point...
What is your experience with predicting the future through the cards ? I would be tempted to ask you, on a percentage, what is your degree of success in that, but I don't know if that makes sense....

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My belief is that Tarot can and does accurately predict the future, to the extent that the future can actually be predicted. Again my belief is that the future usually is not set in advance. It can always change at most points along it's path.

What the cards can do is tell you the future you are heading towards at the exact moment in time that the reading is done. That is the future you are heading towards at that moment. And yes, the cards can and do accurately predict that. I believe that they can and do very accurately do that.

But the problem is that that future can easily change from the time the reading takes place until the point in time asked out in the reading. Sometimes sometimes the very act of having the reading done is enough to change the fufure. If what comes up in the readings affects the querent and causes him/her to react differently to the situation. That in itself can be enough to change that future.

So that is my opinion. That the cards can and do accurately predict the exact future the querent is heading towards at the exact moment in time the reading is done. BUT that that future may change and if it does it will not play out as predicted.

BUT that is not the fault of the cards. They do their job admirably. It is just the very nature of the future to be hard to pin down as it can easily change.

Those are my opinions on that. And whenever I do do a reading on the future for someone, I do make sure that I tell them first that that future is not set in stone and can change...

On the other hand, I do believe that more often than not, what is predicted does come to pass. More than 50% of the time, I believe. I think mainly because the future can easily change does not mean that it will. For the most part people are creatures of habit. And that means they often do react in predictable ways for them and follow a predictable pattern.

Babs

frejasphere said:

What a fascinating thread you started Nikita - took me quite a while to go through all the posts, but it was well worth it ...

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Ditto!

I will mention this, for what it is worth: I have had readings that showed extra happy cards as the outcome, and it set my hair on fire :/ (and by that I mean with trepidation, not joy!)

Let me give you a true example: my dog was badly injured, and I asked if he would heal. He had an injury that some dogs heal quite well from, some not at all. So the odds were split. The cards all came up as Sun, The World, Ace of Wands, etc. When I saw those cards, I immediately shivered with the realization that he would soon be dead. How could I think that, given the happy cards? Because I asked if he would heal; the cards were happy; my gut lurched in a bad way; and sure enough, death has healed him very much. As soon as I saw the cards, I knew it. Call it intuition (hotly debated elsewhere here in the forums!) or foresight or what you will - I just knew the meaning at the moment the cards came out, even if I desperately wanted to believe he would be ok....in any case, the point is, the cards were correct.

I don't know if this is a good enough simile to make anyone understand, but it has been my experience in many readings that the happy cards may be answering something we are not entertaining as a possibility. It may be, for your friend who had three readers give her three happy outcomes, that it is true in a way she does not see yet; that NOT getting the guy was the best possible blessing....! If the question was, will there be a happy ending with this guy, maybe the answer was yes, it is a happy ending - because it is not the right guy for her. So from a tarot point of view, it is a happy ending - perhaps because her true prince was the next man she'd meet, should she be single. (forgive me if I got the question wrong - I have read through the whole thread in a single sitting, and I feel dazed...I cannot exactly paraphrase your question about the querant, beyond does tarot answer accurately every time).

Sometimes, I find, the cards come at something from a very oblique angle. What set my hair on fire with the happy answer for my dog, and for other, assorted happy cards I have had as future predictors in other questions, is that the event will bring a joy of some kind or another, even if it is not immediately apparent. To my heavily injured dog, the cards of joy and healing were a blessing, indeed, as he has been euthanized, and is likely feeling ecstatic as he romps through the Elysian fields, freed of the yoke of injury and pain. (*I* am upset, and do not feel happy, but the cards were about the dog, not me...and about healing, not about "will he live through this?" (and even that is debatable, because many people have many different ideas about the afterlife - I personally believe he lives on, but that is besides the point).

I believe the cards always answer accurately, just perhaps not in a linear fashion, or not in a way we personally understand as readers - at least, not from a face value point of view...Often, it is something only our (disputed) gut can see and understand. (I can cite at least Debra on that, I think? It is not an A + B = C scenario...sorry if I read that incorrectly, Debra!)

Thank you, Nikita, for a question few would ask, and I thank everyone for their fascinating insight! Much to think on....

ETA thinking about it overnight, as some have said here, readings can take a long time to eventuate; perhaps she will run into this man again at a later date, and it *will* work out for them...and the tarot was seeing farther into the future.