Gonna learn Thoth if it kills me - Majors

SolSionnach

I've come late to this thread, and seen things in the cards that I've never seen before. Thanks for starting this, Nicki!

IIRC, the "nursing" bird at the bottom of the card is the pelican, which is rumored to feed it's young with the blood from it's breast. I know I read that somewhere in my previous Thoth studies. It's the self-sacrificing maternal, IIRC.

What is that star-like thing between the Empress's dress and the blue fleur-de-lis?

Interesting how the circles on the shield both look like the glyph for the sun, and the inner one looks like a slim crescent moon.
 

nicky

sravana said:
What is that star-like thing between the Empress's dress and the blue fleur-de-lis?


Per BOT : the Secret Rose. It looks alot like some of the pictures I found while hunting for Platonic Solids. I have attached one of the images from the Temple of Osiris.

Abrac,
You referenced Liber 777.. I thought that was about magick and gematria ... does this have tarot as well?

OMG it never ends !
Nicky
 

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Scion

It all connects to it all. :thumbsup:

777 is great, but you might want to hold off a while if minutiae overwhelms you at all.

There are copies online you can download. In fact, if you let me know, I can email you a whole mess o' Crowley PDFs to keep you busy. :D

Having said that, you MUST read The Wake World which is Crowley's Alice in Wonderland rendering of a walking tour through the Thoth deck... As a magickal journey. And an initiation... And a demented fugue. Amazing. Beautiful. Bizarre.

Click on this and read it with your deck spread out in front of you on a big blown up Tree of Life. :): http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/libers/liber095.pdf
 

Abrac

Hi nicky,

I'm not real familiar with 777, but from what I know of it it's mainly a collection of correspondences. The part I posted wasn't about tarot per se, but it sheds further light on Crolwey's views.
 

nicky

Emperor

How come the bees and the fleur-de-lis, from our Empress? They seem feminine to me.

And for the record I think Crowley was misdirecting us when he made Emperor/Tzaddi and The Star/Heh ... so I am disregarding that.

One week of Thoth and still kicking here...
 

Alan Ross

nicky said:
And for the record I think Crowley was misdirecting us when he made Emperor/Tzaddi and The Star/Heh ... so I am disregarding that.
I've been trying to work through that whole "Tzaddi is not the Star" thing. My understanding is that there are two rationales for the Emperor/Tzaddi and Star/Heh switch.

One is that Crowley argues that the significance of Tzaddi is a better match for the Emperor and the significance of Heh is a better match for The Star. Crowley connects Tzaddi with the roots TZ or TS which he states "is derived from Sanskrit roots meaning Head and Age, and is found today in words like Caesar, Tsar, Sirdar, Senate, Senior, Signor, Senor, Seigneur." In this way, Crowley connects Tzaddi with the concept of male authority.

Heh, on the other hand, is connected through the Tetragrammaton, Yod Heh Vau Heh, to Binah, the supernal mother (first Heh), and Malkuth, the daughter (second Heh). Heh, therefore, is presumably a better match for the feminine energy of The Star.

The second rationale apparently has to do with the whole 8 Justice/11 Strength or 8 Strength/11 Justice controversy. I was surprised to find this out. Crowley diagrams this in the Book of Thoth, but when I looked at this previously, my eyes would glaze over and I would quickly skip through it. I finally worked through it with the help of DuQuette.

The GD switched the positions of trumps Justice and Strength so that Strength would align with Leo and Justice with Libra, while maintaining the natural sequence of the zodiac. Crowley didn't like that, so he restored the original order of the trumps (Adjustment/8 and Lust/11) in his deck. But he kept the GD attribution of Libra for Adjustment (Justice) and Leo for Lust (Strength), which throws off the normal sequence of zodiac signs. Switching the positions of Tzaddi (now associated with Leo) and Heh (now associated with Aquarius) sort of creates another imbalance on the other end of the zodiac that precisely mirrors the imbalance created by switching Leo and Libra, at least keeping things symmetrical.

I don't think that Crowley switched Tzaddi and Heh as a blind. I think he was just trying to get things to fit together that just don't quite fit together naturally. However, the plot thickens. The assignment of Tzaddi to The Emperor changes the position of the Emperor to a different path on the Tree of Life. Duquette points out that Crowley's explanation for the light shining down from the upper right corner of The Emperor assumes that The Emperor is inhabiting it's previous path, now inhabited by The Star. Oops! So who knows what the real story is. I just know that if I had named this thread, I would have named it "Gonna learn Thoth even if it drives me mad." After struggling with stuff like this, I'm well on my way to the madhouse.

Alan
 

nicky

Alan Ross said:
I don't think that Crowley switched Tzaddi and Heh as a blind. I think he was just trying to get things to fit together that just don't quite fit together naturally.

That seems a more valid a reason than my guess that he was trying to keep some blind. Perhaps I am paranoid due to Waite's b.s.

The reality is Tarot, Kaballah, Astrology, Numerology, Elemental systems all are their own entities. Even if they do show remarkable compatibility, they are still unique in the long run.


Alan Ross said:
So who knows what the real story is. I just know that if I had named this thread, I would have named it "Gonna learn Thoth even if it drives me mad." After struggling with stuff like this, I'm well on my way to the madhouse.


Save me a room !

N.