Collaborative Spread Creation #2 - Infidelity

rwcarter

Good ideas le fey. This weekend, I'll need to read back through the whole thread and see what additional positions have already been suggested and compile them all in one place.
 

BeyondtheVeil

le fey said:
In terms of a larger spread, where there is more room to explore the topic, the thought I had at the beginning (but with no room for it limited to 5 cards) is a couple of questions like:

What is A's definition of infidelity?
What is B's definition of infidelity?

Since the question seems to be trying to assess a tendency toward infidelity for the indefinite future, knowing how each person thinks infidelity even is might help establish that?


Those are definitely great questions to ask and know! Exactly what I was thinking! Great job le fey! :)
Maybe those should be questions 1 & 2? That would establish what each person's thoughts/feelings of cheating are. That seems to be one of the first things we need to figure out.
 

BeyondtheVeil

Okay.. how are these questions in this order? I think the first two definitely need to go first to figure out exactly how/what each partner thinks is cheating {or not}. The 3rd question answers the question that you guys are worrying about.. 'why" the person is wondering/suspecting that their partner is cheating.


1}. What is A's definition of infidelity?

2}. What is B's definition of infidelity?

3}. Why I think my partner is cheating on me

4}. What is actually happening?

5}. What could possibly happen in the next 3 months with my partner actually cheating? {What I would consider cheating. The person asking the question}.



I am not sure if these questions would be helpful. Maybe I am just not understanding what is meant by them.

Physical indicator(s) that my partner is cheating on me

Emotional indicator(s) that my partner is cheating on me


I am assuming that the person already knows these indicators. Physical.. not so lovey with me or not having sex. Workout a lot. bought new underwear. Is now wearing make up to go jogging, etc. Is working late. Doesn't answer the cellphone when I call. Has lots of excuses, etc.

Emotional would be the suspicions. Maybe they aren't saying I love you? Or not feeling like the other person loves them. It could also be they are sorta cold to the other person. Maybe starting fights for no reason? Etc.

I guess I am trying to say that these would be some of the first things that would start some suspicions in the first place. Maybe a different take on the questions? Or maybe replacing them completely with others?

The question "Why I think my partner is cheating on me?" Would/May also cover those questions.

BeyondtheVeil
 

rwcarter

BeyondtheVeil said:
I am not sure if these questions would be helpful. Maybe I am just not understanding what is meant by them.

Physical indicator(s) that my partner is cheating on me

Emotional indicator(s) that my partner is cheating on me
Sometimes the signs are there but people don't see them until they're pointed out. Just as we can't assume that the other person is cheating, we also can't assume what kind of suspicions the Querent has. And by including those positions we'd even cover those cases where the Querent was asking for a reading on the subject on a whim or because one of their friends put the thought in their mind when they hadn't ever considered it.

And just as you think the person should already know those indicators, wouldn't the person already know their own definition of infidelity? I can understand how they might not know their partner's definition, but they should know their own.

So I'd suggest keeping position 2 (and prob making it position 1) and making the other one something along the lines of "How the partner's definition of infidelity matches with the Querent's definition", although I can see how it might be hard to interpret whatever card appeared in that position.

Are you suggesting the changes below to the "short version" of the spread or as the beginning of the longer version of the spread?

Rodney
 

Cat*

Allow me to chime in here somewhat late.

I actually think BeyondtheVeil's last post is getting us somewhere very useful. I was also feeling that some questions were redundant, especially given the desire for a short spread.

First of all, I would leave out any questions about the definitions for cheating. This reading is for the querent, so their definition applies. I'd assume the universe to know that. (If you were trying to find out the conflict potential over what actually "qualifies" as cheating in a given/potential relationship, those questions might be very useful, though. But that's another reading. :))

My suggestions (with explanations in brackets):

1. Why does the querent think/feel their partner is cheating on them? (This could cover physical and emotional things from the partner like BeyondtheVeil has listed, but it could also give us a first hint about the querent's insecurity in the case of them worrying over nothing).

2. What is actually happening in terms of cheating or not? (I'd assume a short time frame for this, maybe 2-4 weeks before/after the reading, to give the universe some wiggle room if the partner has just stopped cheating two days before the reading takes place or is about to "do the deed" two days afterwards but looking forward to it already. You know what I mean.)

I just thought of this: Why not split up question 2 into a past/present/future thing? That way, we would cover not only the present moment (see above for why that might be difficult) but we would also cover what may have happened in the past but stopped or what may happen in the future but hasn't begun, yet. As a reader, I'd roughly define the time frames for each position dependent on the querent's situation (i.e. married for 25 years already vs. just stopped dating others three months ago). I also would not be comfortable to read to far into the future, so I would set a limit there, too (BeyondtheVeil has suggested a year).

Therefore:
2 a. What has happened in terms of cheating in the past?
2 b. What is happening in terms of cheating in the present?
2 c. What will likely happen in terms of cheating in the future if the relationship continues the way it is now?

3. What does the querent need to know most about dealing with the situation? (This could point to many different things, depending on the previous cards. It also depends on the querent's own limits. For example, some people are willing and able to let infidelity go if it's over already; others would still feel deeply betrayed and would want to leave/kick out their partner. Others again may get advice about improving the relationship to avoid cheating in the future here.)

In short and in a layout suggestion:

----- 2c -----
1 --- 2b --- 3
----- 2a -----

1. Why does the querent think/feel their partner is cheating on them?
2 a. What has happened in terms of cheating in the past?
2 b. What is happening in terms of cheating in the present?
2 c. What will likely happen in terms of cheating in the future if the relationship continues the way it is now?
3. What does the querent need to know most about dealing with the situation?

This way, you could read across from left to right for the present situation (the querent's worries, the actual situation right now, present advice for the querent) and from bottom to top for the time aspect (past/present/future cheating situation).

Of course, if the reading pointed at a cheating partner very clearly, you could always do a second spread to find out more about dealing with the situation and/or the causes for it. At least that would be my approach (instead of making one huge spread to cover it all at once).

Hope that's helpful, and I also hope I managed to express myself clearly. Please ask for clarification if I haven't.

:)

P.S. I love this collaborative spread-making idea, Rodney! I love tweaking spreads anyway, and doing it in conversation is even better... :thumbsup:
 

BeyondtheVeil

rwcarter said:
Sometimes the signs are there but people don't see them until they're pointed out. Just as we can't assume that the other person is cheating, we also can't assume what kind of suspicions the Querent has. And by including those positions we'd even cover those cases where the Querent was asking for a reading on the subject on a whim or because one of their friends put the thought in their mind when they hadn't ever considered it.
True. I was just assuming they were coming in asking because they already had suspicions. The lady for the reading /spread has those already. She is concerned about the 'signs".


rwcarter said:
And just as you think the person should already know those indicators, wouldn't the person already know their own definition of infidelity? I can understand how they might not know their partner's definition, but they should know their own. {/QUOTE]

I guess I am confused here. Of course, they would know their own definitions of infidelity. They do not know for sure their partner's definition. {i.e. is casual encounters [sex} cheating to them}. I think both partners probably think having a boyfriend/girlfriend outside the marriage is cheating.. but do they both think casual encounters is cheating. {If the cheating person didn't love the person they cheated with and/or it was 'just fun" . They is a mandatory question that needs to be asked. {atleast for this situation}. To clarify.. there is NO doubt on what the asking person's definition of cheating is. They let the partner know ahead of time. I think the partner thinks that also. The question is.. did a casual encounter happen {that the sitter clearly thinks is cheating, but maybe her partner does not}. Sex outside the relationship would be cheating. If one partner didn't think it meant anything, was a one night stand, or just for fun.. then they may not actually think that is cheating at all. They may agree that having another partner besides the spouse is cheating, but not think a casual thing IS cheating.



rwcarter said:
So I'd suggest keeping position 2 (and prob making it position 1) and making the other one something along the lines of "How the partner's definition of infidelity matches with the Querent's definition", although I can see how it might be hard to interpret whatever card appeared in that position.

I am assuming that they both have the same definition of cheating. {In the case of why I am asking for the spread they do}. I am just saying that one may not think a casual encounter is cheating. That wouldn't show up because your focus in on what they both think is cheating. They both have the same definition supposedly, so that leaves out the casual encounter.



rwcarter said:
Are you suggesting the changes below to the "short version" of the spread or as the beginning of the longer version of the spread?

Rodney

I wasn't even thinking that far ahead. I was just trying to reword the questions that we already have to focus more clearly on what it is that I am wanting to find out. :) It can be short or long, but they need to be specifically focused like I posted. Though as I think of it.. maybe instead of the definitions of infidelity of each.. what about what does each think/feel about a casual, non love encounter?
 

rwcarter

BtV,

One thing we (as a group) should come to an agreement on is the purpose of the spread. I (and I believe others) are trying to create a general spread that covers the topic of infidelity, while you appear to want a spread geared to the specific situation that you're aware of. A well-developed general spread should easily be applicable to a specific situation. But I don't believe that a spread geared towards one specific situation is as easily applied to other situations.

That's why I'm trying not to make any assumptions about is or isn't cheating, the same/similar/different perspectives on cheating, whether or not the Querent is aware of any indicators about cheating, etc. Those things may be known in the specific situation, but I don't think they can be built into any general spread.

Rodney
 

BeyondtheVeil

Cat* said:
Allow me to chime in here somewhat late.

I actually think BeyondtheVeil's last post is getting us somewhere very useful. I was also feeling that some questions were redundant, especially given the desire for a short spread.

Thanks! :)


Cat* said:
First of all, I would leave out any questions about the definitions for cheating. This reading is for the querent, so their definition applies. I'd assume the universe to know that. (If you were trying to find out the conflict potential over what actually "qualifies" as cheating in a given/potential relationship, those questions might be very useful, though. But that's another reading. :))

Then we probably need to have a position for 'casual encounters'. It may list what 'cheating" means to the querent, but it doesn't focus on the fact that the partner may not see a casual encournter/sex as cheating. Example.. If both partners think having a 'relationship" outside the marriage is cheating.. then a casual encournter wouldn't show up or count as that isn't a 'relationship' but a one time thing.

Cat* said:
My suggestions (with explanations in brackets):

1. Why does the querent think/feel their partner is cheating on them? (This could cover physical and emotional things from the partner like BeyondtheVeil has listed, but it could also give us a first hint about the querent's insecurity in the case of them worrying over nothing).

2. What is actually happening in terms of cheating or not? (I'd assume a short time frame for this, maybe 2-4 weeks before/after the reading, to give the universe some wiggle room if the partner has just stopped cheating two days before the reading takes place or is about to "do the deed" two days afterwards but looking forward to it already. You know what I mean.)

I just thought of this: Why not split up question 2 into a past/present/future thing? That way, we would cover not only the present moment (see above for why that might be difficult) but we would also cover what may have happened in the past but stopped or what may happen in the future but hasn't begun, yet. As a reader, I'd roughly define the time frames for each position dependent on the querent's situation (i.e. married for 25 years already vs. just stopped dating others three months ago). I also would not be comfortable to read to far into the future, so I would set a limit there, too (BeyondtheVeil has suggested a year).

Therefore:
2 a. What has happened in terms of cheating in the past?
2 b. What is happening in terms of cheating in the present?
2 c. What will likely happen in terms of cheating in the future if the relationship continues the way it is now?

3. What does the querent need to know most about dealing with the situation? (This could point to many different things, depending on the previous cards. It also depends on the querent's own limits. For example, some people are willing and able to let infidelity go if it's over already; others would still feel deeply betrayed and would want to leave/kick out their partner. Others again may get advice about improving the relationship to avoid cheating in the future here.)

In short and in a layout suggestion:

----- 2c -----
1 --- 2b --- 3
----- 2a -----

1. Why does the querent think/feel their partner is cheating on them?
2 a. What has happened in terms of cheating in the past?
2 b. What is happening in terms of cheating in the present?
2 c. What will likely happen in terms of cheating in the future if the relationship continues the way it is now?
3. What does the querent need to know most about dealing with the situation?

This way, you could read across from left to right for the present situation (the querent's worries, the actual situation right now, present advice for the querent) and from bottom to top for the time aspect (past/present/future cheating situation).

Of course, if the reading pointed at a cheating partner very clearly, you could always do a second spread to find out more about dealing with the situation and/or the causes for it. At least that would be my approach (instead of making one huge spread to cover it all at once).

Hope that's helpful, and I also hope I managed to express myself clearly. Please ask for clarification if I haven't.

:)

P.S. I love this collaborative spread-making idea, Rodney! I love tweaking spreads anyway, and doing it in conversation is even better... :thumbsup:


I actually like your idea of the past/present/future thing! That is getting specific info that I would want in a spread.

I guess I am not so concerned with how they 'deal' with the situation. They will want to know 'how, why, when, etc" and less about how to deal with the situation. They may want to know what will come of the cheating situation like 'will the partner leave the other for the new one" but the dealing with it should be an entirely different spread imo. When my ex was cheating. .honestly I knew how to deal with it. lol I just wanted facts and what was going on with the person he was cheating with. {going to be together, just casual, one of many, etc}. I just think that 'dealing with it" should have a separate spread because there needs to be more things covered than just one question. I feel that should be more detailed and have a spread of it's own.

I do like your overall take though. Past/present/future would definitely be helpful!

I guess the more I think about it.. maybe le fey's questions could be reworded for 'what is A's thought about having casual encounters/one night stands/meaningless 'fun" outside of their relationship. I think that is important to find out. Partner A's definition would probably be that it is cheating while partner B just thinks it is nothing. I still want a question or questions that would figure this out. Both Partner A & B have the same 'general" feelings/ideas of cheating. The difference may be on casual encounters where there isn't a relationship and/or love/feelings. I hope that makes sense. lol

I agree with almost everything you said though. The questions/postions need to specifically address the issues instead of more generally. This spread is actually about possible cheating/casual encounters so that is how I am wanting to word the spread. I think there are casual encounters so that would be cheating to the querent even though it isn't to the partner. This goes back to my original thing about 'if someone doesn't think what they are doing is wrong" would it show up as such? It would probably have to specifically be addressed in some way. It needs to be addressed for the partner especially. We already know what the querent thinks cheating is. {they are there for the reading}. We can ask if necessary if we need clarification. I dunno.. just thinking out loud. :)

BeyondtheVeil
 

BeyondtheVeil

rwcarter said:
BtV,

One thing we (as a group) should come to an agreement on is the purpose of the spread. I (and I believe others) are trying to create a general spread that covers the topic of infidelity, while you appear to want a spread geared to the specific situation that you're aware of. A well-developed general spread should easily be applicable to a specific situation. But I don't believe that a spread geared towards one specific situation is as easily applied to other situations.

That's why I'm trying not to make any assumptions about is or isn't cheating, the same/similar/different perspectives on cheating, whether or not the Querent is aware of any indicators about cheating, etc. Those things may be known in the specific situation, but I don't think they can be built into any general spread.

Rodney


Okay.. this makes sense then. It just isn't helpful to me. I am looking for a specific spread that is why I posted. :-( I can find a million 'general" spreads on cheating/infidelity/is my other seeing another.. etc}. There just isn't one on 'cheating" when one partner doesn't think what they are doing is cheating. I didn't realize until we were going through this exercise that the focus I wanted and needed in a spread is on casual encounters, what each would think of such , etc.


I guess I didn't realize that we were trying to make a 'general' spread for 'all situations". That isn't helpful to my specific needs for the reading/spread that I posted about. I don't have a problem at all with doing a general spread also, but I need specifically a spread that is not 'general". I can post my own thread to get help on mine if you want to refocus this to a general one. No worries! :) Sorry if I confused the thread!


BeyondtheVeil
 

rwcarter

BeyondtheVeil said:
I didn't realize until we were going through this exercise that the focus I wanted and needed in a spread is on casual encounters, what each would think of such , etc.
I believe that a general spread on the topic of casual encounters and what each person thinks of those can be created (although I don't think we've addressed that yet cause our focus has been elsewhere). That's a general spread on a specific sub-topic of infidelity.

I'm not adverse to creating a specific spread on a specific sub-topic, but as I said, I think a general spread that can be applied to specific situations is better than a specific spread that can't be as easily applied to more general situations.

What we (as a group) might need to do as a compromise is to come up with a general spread with alternate wording for your specific situation.

Rodney