Major Arcana titles: La Maison-Diev

Diana

kwaw said:
Within a reformist context therefore the lightening struck tower could envisage G-d's destruction of a corrupt church.

And the Church and the State were closely tied together. In those days the State was the King. Which would explain the depiction of a castle tower, and not necessarily a church edifice.
 

jmd

I suspect that the title arises from various considerations already mentioned: the ziggurat, the hospices, houses of the Devil, and Towers... in what sense?

The ziggurat, in its Tower of Babel aspect, and as a house of God, sought to reach for heaven, and hence was destroyed (I realise I'm only stating what each knows in greater detail).

Some hospices, in their later mediaeval development on the road to Jerusalem did have a tower as part of their fortification. It may be that this is also the isolated symbolic structure which made the hospice recognisable (and a welcome sight) to pilgrims.

With regards to the House of the Devil, however, there is also a 'simpler' explanation - one first proposed by Gettings, which I also mention in the thread XVI - La Maison Diev: it may depict the house of false gods.

If the depiction on Amiens Cathedral is at all what I think it is, as possibly representing the destruction of an Egyptian Temple as mentioned in the Infancy Gospel of pseudo-Matthew, then, combined with the understanding (though anachronistic) that in Egypt their 'temples', as mosques, had minarets, the image, and name, make sense.

With regards to the 'v' & 'u', ihcoyc once posted a quite succinct lesson on their earlier uses in this thread :)
 

Rusty Neon

I personally favour the Tower of Babel interpretation.

Alternate speculation by Marcel Picard:

(1) Genesis, Ch. 28, verses 11 to 19: The stone erected by Jacob which he called Bethel (which means "House of God" in Hebrew)
 

jmd

Thanks Rusty Neon.

With regards to the Athanor, here is a link to an image I once used in the What card am I: XVI The Tower thread.

What I do not see, however, is how the Athanor relate to the card's title, as opposed to its image (except by a stretch of the imagination).
 

Rusty Neon

jmd ... Yes, only the comment regarding Jacob and Bethel relates to the title of the card. The others relate to the meaning of the card. Feel free to move my post to the main thread on La Maison-Diev.
 

jmd

No need to move it...

I just thought that perhaps there may have been an aspect of the word, its connotation or its etymology I may have missed.

I might make a link and comment in the other thread to here, for the sake of later ease of reference.

:)
 

Roxanne Flornoy

JC has prepared his remarks in French and put them on his website. For those who read French, here is the link
http://letarot.com.

As soon as I've finished translating it, I'll sen it online to AT.
Regards, Rox
 

Ross G Caldwell

I have read a suggestion that MAISON.DIEV was originally a misreading of MAISON.DIAV. - itself short for Maison du Diable, recalling Italian titles of the 16th century, such as "Casa di Diavolo" and "Pluton". There is also a "Casa del danato" (House of the Damned) and a "Casa di Dio".

Of course, it is called "Thunderbolt" and "Arrow" and "Fire" too, so it is a very varied card.

However, a simple "misreading" seems to be an improbably reductionistic explanation.

But having read JCs remarks on the title, I think he is correct to note that the form is always "Maison Dieu" never "Maison DE Dieu". The French title is "God-House"; where God lives, I am sure. So perhaps a part of it is Mount Sinai, where the Law, both written and oral was given, and Moses saw the burning bush that was not consumed. In the earliest exemplar of all, that of de Gaignières (Charles VI), the Tower looks much more mountainous than in succeeding versions, and one can imagine the cloud-covered, thunderous mountain of God. Or the Gods, Olympus. I have also considered the card as Hell, or if the Devil be given that job, then Purgatory. Purgatory is portrayed like such a mountain in medieval depictions, and Dante manuscripts; I cannot recall if it is a tower. It leads through fear and punishment out to Hope, the Star, and then upward through the planets to Paradise.

Certainly the most varied names of any card, historically speaking.

Ross
 

Diana

Also having read Jean-Claude's commentaires, I am happy to stand corrected. Hospitals are referred to as "Hôtel-Dieu" and not "Maison-Dieu."

I wondered where my confusion came from, because as soon as he said this, I said to myself "How dumb can you get, Diana - you knew this, so where does your confusion come from and why did you mix up these two terms?" And then I went to check my sources, and I still find references to Maison-Dieu as hospices and places of shelter - even back to 500 AD.

So I still have a nagging feeling at the back of my head which won't go away.
 

jmd

Though I have also read Flornoy's post in French, I'll await the translation before commenting.

In terms of the card's title - rather than its iconography, which we could also well do with further posts and insights in the thread XVI - La Maison Diev, I too was under the impression that some early references were to 'Maison Diev', as, effectively, safe houses protected by the hand of God, and that some later became also named 'Hotel Diev'.

If - and it is an if, for which I do not currently have easily accessible resources to check - those words are interchangeable, than the title may very well depict those houses of safety, yet its destruction would also indicate something else, especially if read in the context of that which Ross Caldwell here reminds us of: that 'tradition' which states of it that it is not the house of God (or, as pointed out, more correctly rendered as 'God-House'), but 'Devil-House'.

This is one of those rare instances in which I really think that what Gettings brought to our attention with the Cathedral image linked, even if he did make a mistake with regards both to its location and his mis-linking it to the Golden Legends rather than teh pseudo-infancy Gospels, makes for so much Midrash/Exegetical sense: God-House of the Infidels, downed by the fiery coming of Christ, at whose second coming all false God-Houses will likewise perish! Such could easily have been ever-so-strongly felt and ardently believed.