The Cary-Yale Visconti

kwaw

Huck said:
Thanks for the info about the 9 heroes / 9 heroines. I didn't kow, that they were already so early.

Well, there might have been female knight orders before ... but 200 years difference to the Trionfi time makes them totally uninteresting. One has to understand, that 200 years are simply 200 years and are a long time. And likely Filippo Visconti never even did hear about these early ideas - if the builded orders didn't persist till his lifetime (which I would doubt for the moment).

They did persist, one of them was banned by Pope Sixtus.

Even the 40 years from the mentioned poem are long ... alright, they were painted 1420.

But the poem was in French language, survived "only" in 3 manuscripts and do we have information, if the Visconti library had it? Well, the motif reappeared later, but in France mainly and later in German humanism. In Florence it was imitated ca. 1450 by another group of 9 heroes.

It was only one example of a popular genre in both literature and art. The genre of complementing nine worthy men with nine worthy women is common from 14th century on. Perhaps in 1440 'old' fashion, I am not sure, that underwent perhaps a retro-chic renewal in fashion in the 1440's under some new impetus [such as those already mentioned]. We see here an example painted between 1418-1430, you yourself mention an example 1450. Not neccesarily meaning a persistent fashion, but under various fresh impetus a popular recurring fashion with restrospective reference to previous ones.

Was there any connection between the Piedmontese Marquis or descendants, their Piedmont Castle of Manta where the painted 1418-1430 frescos are? Even if not, the point is to a shared genre, not a direct link, and / or perhaps a 1440's retro-fashion under new impetus, as possibly reflected in new order of Cathering Baw and later the Hornes [up until 17th century their principality or fiefs (includeing for example regions of what are now in belgium, holland, germany, france, piedmont) inherited, as far as I can find out from rather scanty evidence, through the female line since 11th century].

The point is the genre was old, recurring in retro-fashionalbe periods under new impulse over several decades [14th - 15th c.], but with established and fairly consistent iconography [for the men, the women differed in different lists and did not follow the triadic division into 3 pagans, 3 jews and 3 christians]. It is not in itself therefore a reliable dating device, the genre is there in the 20s and 40s.

There is also the interest of the fountain in connection with both tropes. In the Manta there is the connection with Christ, referencing perhaps the Cult of Precious Blood, the fountain of life, and identification of the fountain with Christ or those baptised to the life eternal [and the connection with such in the overall triumphal themes of fame and eternity].

Kwaw
 

Huck

Alright, let's go to details:

http://www.heraldica.org/topics/orders/wom-kn.htm
(your link)

"It is the order of the Hatchet (orden de la Hacha) in Catalonia. It was founded in 1149 by Raymond Berenger, count of Barcelona, to honor the women who fought for the defense of the town of Tortosa against a Moor attack. The dames admitted to the order received many privileges, including exemption from all taxes, and took precedence over men in public assemblies. I presume the order died out with the original members. "

Likely "the order died out with the original members" ... so irrelevant.

The next:

"In Italy, the Order of the glorious Saint Mary, founded by Loderigo d'Andalo, a nobleman of Bologna in 1233, and approved by pope Alexander IV in 1261, was the first religious order of knighthood to grant the rank of militissa to women. This order was suppressed by Sixtus V in 1558."

That's founded and approved inside the crusader time ... there is a general break in the knight orders development with the fall of Akkon and the fall of the Templer. It seems likely, that the order was irrelevant in 14th century, cause Italy developed the Condottieri system and this seemed to contradict the knight orders ideas for some time. It seeme, that the knight orders idea was reimported to Italy possibly in the 1450's (Francesco Sforza and Jacopo Antonio Marcello were Italian "Knights" in the French order of Rene d'Anjou, likely becoming member in 1451 or 1452 in a specific political situation (pause of the war Milan-Venice) - actually this was not really a knight-order-game, but a diplomacy game (what knight orders often were).

Well, it's interesting: Filippo Visconti took control of Bologna (city of the order of the glorious Mary) during the council of Ferrara 1438.
Filippo - as above in other articles postulated - created the knights-as-court-cards-phenomenon in 1441, then still in possession of Bologna, and Filippo knew and was interested in the the story of Jeanne d'Arc. ... was it perhaps Filippo himself, who revived the old story of the order and reconstituted it?
Or happened the reconstitution in the general stream of a modern-way Knight order system, which spread in Italy in the 1470's, likely following French and outlandish influences?

A constant existence of the order seems very doubtful.

Sixtus V. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14033a.htm
the one, who prohibited the order:

"Born at Grottamare near Montalto, 13 December, 1521; elected 24 April, 1585; crowned 1 May, 1585; died in the Quirinal, 27 August, 1590. He belonged to a Dalmatian family which in the middle of the preceding century had fled to Italy from the Turks who were devastating Illyria and threatened to invade Dalmatia. His father was a gardener and it is said of Felice that, when a boy, he was a swineherd. At the age of nine he came to the Minorite convent at Montalto, where his uncle, Fra Salvatore, was a friar. Here he became a novice at the age of twelve. He was educated at Montalto, Ferrara, and Bologna and was ordained at Siena in 1547. The talented young priest gained a high reputation as a preacher. At Rome, where in 1552 he preached the Lenten sermons in the Church of Santi Apostoli, his successful preaching gained for him the friendship of very influential men, such as Cardinal Carpi, the protector of his order; the Cardinals Caraffa and Ghislieri, both of whom became popes; St. Philip Neri and St. Ignatius. He was successively appointed rector of his convent at Siena in 1550, of San Lorenzo at Naples in 1553, and of the convent of the Frari at Venice in 1556. A year later Pius IV appointed him also counselor to the Inquisition at Venice. His zeal and severity in the capacity of inquisitor displeased the Venetian Government, which demanded and obtained his recall in 1560. Having returned to Rome he was made counsellor to the Holy Office, professor at the Sapienza, and general procurator and vicar Apostolic of his order. In 1565 Pius IV designated him to accompany to Spain Cardinal Buoncompagni (afterwards Gregory XIII), who was to investigate a charge of heresy against Archbishop Carranza of Toledo. From this time dates the antipathy between Peretti and Buoncompagni, which declared itself more openly during the latter's pontificate (1572-85). Upon his return to Rome in 1566 Pius V created him Bishop of Sant' Agata dei Goti in the Kingdom of Naples and later chose him as his confessor. On 17 May, 1570, the same pope created him cardinal-priest with the titular Church of S. Simeone, which he afterwards exchanged for that of S. Girolamo dei Schiavoni. In 1571 he was transferred to the See of Fermo. He was popularly known as the Cardinal di Montalto. During the pontificate of Gregory XIII he withdrew from public affairs, devoting himself to study and to the collection of works of art, as far as his scanty means permitted. During this time he edited the works of St. Ambrose (Rome, 1579-1585) and erected a villa (now Villa Massimi) on the Esquiline.

Gregory XIII died on 10 April 1585, and after a conclave of four days Peretti was elected pope by "adoration" on 24 April, 1585. He took the name Sixtus V in memory of Sixtus IV, who had also been a Minorite."


Which should clearly tell, that Sixtus V. wasn't pope in 1558, but ...

"A year later Pius IV appointed him also counselor to the Inquisition at Venice. His zeal and severity in the capacity of inquisitor displeased the Venetian Government, which demanded and obtained his recall in 1560."

... as an inquisitor - who soon stumbled about his own feet he could cause some stress on some minor and not very important social institutions like the "order of the glorious St. Mary" (which likely was simply one of many strokes against some women emancipation, not a central important act).

The next one:

"In England, ladies were appointed to the Garter almost from the start. In all, 68 ladies were appointed between 1358 and 1488, including all consorts. Though many were women of royal blood, or wives of knights of the Garter, some women were neither. They wore the garter on the left arm, and some are shown on their tombstones with this arrangement. "

Well, the Garter was English - with logical great differences from the ustoms from the continent) and from begin on it had an erotic-ironical component ("garter"; "honi soit, qui mal y pense" ...

The French world and English customs were hostile to each for 100 years; Milan definitely was more influenced from France than from England, logically we should assume, that there was NOT a major influence from this side.

Next (militaric orders)

"Several established military orders had women who were associated with them, beyond the simple provision of aid. The Teutonic order accepted consorores who assumed the habit of the order and lived under its rule; they undertook menial and hospitaller functions. Later, in the late 12th century, one sees convents dependent on military orders are formed. In the case of the Order of Saint-John (later Malta), they were soeurs hospitalières, and they were the counterparts of the frères prêtres or priest brothers, a quite distinct class from the knights. In England, Buckland was the site of a house of Hospitaller sisters from Henry II's reign to 1540. In Aragon, there were Hospitaller convents in Sigena, San Salvador de Isot, Grisén, Alguaire, headed each by a commendatrix. In France they are found in Beaulieu (near Cahors), Martel and Fieux. The only other military order to have convents by 1300 was the order of Santiago, which had admitted married members since its foundation in 1175. and soon women were admitted and organized into convents of the order (late 12th, early 13th c.). The convents were headed by a commendatrix (in Spanish: commendadora) or prioress. There were a total of six in the late 13th century: Santa Eufenia de Cozuelos in northern Castile, San Spiritu de Salamanca, Santos-o-Vello in Portugal, Destriana near Astorga, San Pedro de la Piedra near Lérida, San Vincente de Junqueres. The order of Calatrava also had a convent in San Felices de los Barrios. "

I see nothing, which points to a relevant influence in the given question (1441, region of Milan or possible influence via diplomatic connection).

Still Jeanne d'Arc seems to be the "relevant theme of the moment"

###

Well, there is master Ingold from 1432 (short after 1431), and he knows of a deck with Kings, Queens and maiden instead the usual three more or less militaric male figures, something what Ingold seems to attack as "wrong" (likely too much women as court cards).
 

kwaw

kwaw said:
Was there any connection between the Piedmontese Marquis or descendants, their Piedmont Castle of Manta where the painted 1418-1430 frescos are?

Kwaw

A Visconti woman appears in the knight errant [in which the nine worthy woman of the fresco's are written of], itself, being the grandmother of the author!!!

quote [bold, italic emphasis mine]:

"The participation of armed ladies . . . [in battles] was considered. . . as fairly normal. Ordericus Vitalis mentions Helvise, countess of Evreux in the twelfth century, who rode to war with the horsemen, armed as they were and showing as much ardour as the knights, clothed in their hauberts, and the soldiers carrying spears. During the crusades women fought in the Frankish armies. . . . Froissart described countess Jeanne de Montfort during the Breton succession War, 'armed all over', 'mounted on a fine courser', who 'held a sharp cutting sword upright and fought well with great courage'. At the end of the fourteenth century, Thomas III, marquis of Saluzzo, described in Le Chevalier errant his grandmother, Richarda Visconti, who when her husband was in prison passed her time leading in person `la greigneure guerrre du monde'. (Contamine, 241-42; see also Engendering, 201-6)"

end quote from:
http://emc.eserver.org/1-1/rackin.html

References given in above quote:

Contamine, P. War in the Middle Ages, trans. Michael Jones. Cambridge, Mass.: Blackwell, 1984.
Howard, J. and Phyllis Rackin. Engendering a Nation: A Feminist Account of Shakespeare's English Histories. London: Routledge, 1997.

Kwaw
 

Huck

... :)... I still would assume that female warriors were usually rare exceptions ... perhaps with the exception of a city under siege, where it was natural, that women helped to defend their home and family in highest need.

A Queen, that appeared at the battlefield and "was there in person, and went from ranke to ranke, and incouraged hir people in the best manner she could, and that doone, she departed, committing them and their cause to God the giver of all victorie " means, that she was gone, when the battle started.
That's not really a "female knight".

In the case of Ricarda Visconti the military action seems to refer to a familary conflict, when an uncle of the current signore revolutionized twice with success against the reign of the nephew in the 1340's ...

http://genealogy.euweb.cz/italy/saluzzo1.html

E1. Manfredo IV, Marchese di Saluzzo (1296-1334), abdicated, *ca 1262, +Cortemiglia 16.9.1340; 1m: 1287 Beatrix von Hohenstaufen (+after 1307); 2m: ca 1308 Isabella Doria, dau.of Bernabo Doria Patrizio di Genova by Eleonora Fieschi Patrizia di Genova (+1353)
F1. [1m.] Caterina; m.Guglielmo Enganna, Signore di La Barge
F2. [1m.] Federico I, Marchese di Saluzzo (1334-36), *ca 1287, +29.6.1336; 1m: IX.1303 Margarete de La Tour du Pin, dau.of Humbert I Dauphine de Vienne by Anna di Borgogna; 2m: Giacomina di Biandrete, dau.of Guglielmo Signore di San Giorgio
G1. [1m.] Tomasso II, Marchese di Saluzzo (1336-41)+(27.3.-13.5.1344)+(1346-57), *ca 1304, +Saluzzo 15.8.1357; m.ca 1329 Ricciarda Visconti (+1361); for his issue see HERE
G2. [1m.] a daughter; m.Pietro Cambiano Signore di Ruffia
G3. [illegitimate] Giacomo, Signore di Brondello; m.Caterina Cambiano di Ruffia, dau.of Domenico Cambiano di Ruffia
F3. [2m.] Manfredo V, Marchese usurpatore di Saluzzo (1341-44)+(1344-46), Signore di Mulazzano, Carde e Carmagnola, +after 8.8.1389/1392; m.1333 Eleonora di Savoia (+1350)

Ricarda Visconti I didn't find in the Visconti genealogy. Well, ... who else in her position (with a husband in prison) should have organised resistance in the given political situation? But was she really active on the battlefield?

Well, there are some pictures with female warriors ... but likely 99% and more of the relevant warrior pictures show men.

####

Filippo Visconti hadn't a male heir, only one daughter.

Later (after the production of the Cary-Yale in 1441) in a matter of the defense of Cremona just this daughter is reported to have been actually militarical active and killing a Venetian soldier (1447 or 1448 ?).

Perhaps Filippo educated her with some militarical training ... ? But likely just cause it was his single daughter and he had no other heir.
And perhaps just because of this specific personal condition his specific interest in Jeanne d'Arc existed and was expressed in the court card arrangement??
 

kwaw

Huck said:
In the case of Ricarda Visconti the military action seems to refer to a familary conflict, when an uncle of the current signore revolutionized twice with success against the reign of the nephew in the 1340's ...

I agree this war reference probably to the Guelf-Ghibelline conflict involving Thommaso III's grandfather Thommaso II:

quote:
Thomas II (Tommaso del Vasto) (died 1357) was margrave of Saluzzo from 1336 to his death. He succeeded his father, Frederick.
His succession was disputed by his uncle Manfred. The ensuing war was part of the wider Guelf-Ghibelline conflict. Thomas, who had married a Visconti, was a Gibelline and Manfred a Guelf with the support of King Robert of Naples. Robert therefore, to reduce Ghibelline (and Visconti) power in the north, advanced on Saluzzo and besieged it. He succeeded in taking it and sacking it, setting the city on fire and imprisoning Thomas, who had to pay a ransom."


http://genealogy.euweb.cz/italy/saluzzo1.html

G1. [1m.] Tomasso II, Marchese di Saluzzo (1336-41)+(27.3.-13.5.1344)+(1346-57), *ca 1304, +Saluzzo 15.8.1357; m.ca 1329 Ricciarda Visconti (+1361); for his issue see HERE

Ricarda Visconti I didn't find in the Visconti genealogy.

Parents Visconti, Galeazzo I and Beatrice d'Este. Sister of Azzone Visconti Signore of Milan:

A1. Galeazzo I, Signore di Milano (1322-27), deposed 5.7.1327, Podesta di Novara (1298-99), *21.1.1277, +Pescia 6.8.1328; m.24.6.1300 Beatrice d'Este (+15.9.1334)
B1. Azzone I, Signore di Milano (1329-39), *7.12.1302, +Milano 16.8.1339; m.Milano 1.10.1333 Caterina di Savoia (+18.6.1388)
B2. Ricciarda, +1361; m.1329 Marchese Tomasso II di Saluzzo (*ca 1304, +15.8.1357)
B3. [illegitimate] Caterina; m.Alaone Spinola Patrizio di Genova (+after 1349)

Kwaw
 

Huck

Well, that's a near relationship to the reigning Visconti-family.

The later Saluzzo-author writes in French, has relations to the French court and wrote likely in prison? 1394-1396 or little after it?

Well, Valentina Visconti was accused 1396 ? Are there things between the life of the author just in these years and Valentina Visconti?
 

kwaw

Pomegranates, Crowns, Dove and Fountains

Huck said:
Well, that's a near relationship to the reigning Visconti-family.

The later Saluzzo-author writes in French, has relations to the French court and wrote likely in prison? 1394-1396 or little after it?

Well, Valentina Visconti was accused 1396 ? Are there things between the life of the author just in these years and Valentina Visconti?

I don't know about him being imprisoned, nor that he was in France when the first document was produced [1394-96], the altered edition of 1403-05 was written while he was in Paris, but that was way after Valentina's exile for alledged sorcery.

Another area of research I think, beside the symmetrical treatment of gender, is the use of the pomegranate, crown, dove and fountain motifs as texures on the fabrics of the court cards, individual to each suit, and their symbolism. As motifs they were too common I think to define them neccesarily as heraldic. The pomegranate motif, rich in symbolism among Christians, Jews and Muslims [and others] and originally imported from Turco [Turkey], was a common textural pattern on the clothing of the rich, between 1420 to 1550, and was as far as extent research I am aware of the most common motif used on triumphal banners; as a textural pattern for clothing it is also common in renaissance art. The fountain [as fountain of youth or life] was also a common motif, as was the dove; and the ducal crown? {I don't know} Any research been done, references available on these areas? Have any suggestions been made as to why a particular motif was associated with a particular suit? Or relationship between suits and trumps with same motif [pomegranate-swords; staves-fountain; cups-crown; coins-dove; male figure of Amor trump with fountain; female charioteer with crown on gown, holding a disc with a dove on it].

Kwaw
 

kwaw

Horse racing

Bit frustrated at the moment... recent posts reminded me of a description [somewhat derogatory as I recall] in Chaucer of a tournament which included women. I have been searching through Chaucer but can't find the description I recall. I would like to find the text and its date. Is it post his Italian trips [which included a Visconti marriage]? Still looking, can't find it, but definitely remember there being such.

Anyhow, the most obvious, if mundane, type of tournament event in which men and women took part and wore colours [not together but in a category of their own, as did children and jews for example], was horse racing. Such also included 'triumphal' like processions.

Any other suggestions?

Kwaw
 

kwaw

Colours

In reference to the wearing of colours it is perhaps relevant that one of the French terms for the four suits is Les Couleurs, colours. The wearing of colours at tournaments is one of the reasons historians of Heraldry give for the development of Heraldry. Saracenic heraldry developed following contact with crusaders, and a complete heraldic device in Saracenic heraldry too is call a rank, meaning 'colour'. And the emblems of the suits themselves, swords, discs, staves and cups may be found among the 'colours' of Saracenic heraldry [often referring to the low station, eg cup bearer, armour bearer, of the Amir during their period in the valet corp as youths, from which they rose].

Kwaw
 

Huck

To Tommaso, Wikipedia, "prisoned 1394-1396", likely the production time of the text

"He was born in Saluzzo in north-western Italy.

The son of margrave Frederick II del Vasto, he tried to continue the latter's philo-French politics, mainly to face the meance of Duke Amadeus VIII of Savoy, who aimed to conquer the whole Piedmont. In fact, the treaty stating the nominal submission to France was signed by Thomas well before his father's death.

The vassallage to French was also a consequence of the education received by Thomas, who lived in Provence for much of his youth, and travelled there in 1375, 1389, 1401, 1403 and 1405. He was married to the French Marguerite of Roussy.

In 1394 he was captured by Savoyard troops while he was leading a ravage in Monasterolo. Imprisoned first in Savigliano and then in Turin, he was freed only two years later after a ransom of 20,000 golden florin had been paid.

In his late years Thomas assigned the succession to his young son Ludovico, under the regence of his brother, Valerano and marquesses Marguerite.

A man of great culture, Thomas was the author of one of the most important chivalry texts of the Middle Ages, Le Chevalier Errant, written probably during his imprisonment in Piedmont. The text, written in French, is an allegory of the chevalleresque ideals. It inspired the famous frescoes in the Castello della Manta."

####

Seems, he was more or less influenced by French culture, but was prisoned 1394 - 1396 by the Savoyards (what likely means, it didn't touch Valentina's destiny(?)). He was released 1396, when his father died, and he got the title himself.

A very interesting observation: He was father of Ricarda, wife of Niccolo d'Este and mother of Ercole and Sigismodo d'Este since 1431 ... which means, she was one of the few persons, who directly relate to the origin of Trionfi cards in Ferrara (and naturally to the court situation, when Bianca Maria Visconti visited Ferrara in winter 1440/1441).

After Niccolo died December 1441, there raised a situation of competition between Leonello (illegitimate son of Niccolo) and Ricarda, who claimed rights for her legitimate sons of Niccolo. Possibly the second note, which mentiones Trionfi cards for these both young boys, refers indirectly to this conflict.

C. "Ricciardia, +Ferrara 16.8.1474; m.1431 Niccolo III d'Este Signore di Ferrara, Modena e Reggio (*9.11.1383 +26.12.1441)"

http://genealogy.euweb.cz/italy/saluzzo2.html

http://trionfi.com/0/e/02/

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.... Valentina got as a dowry the city of Asti (also Piedmont) from Giangaleazzo, so somehow in neighbourhood to Saluzzo .... so perhaps there is a relation by this?