5th element?

irmata

Chatmauve said:
I’ve been thinking a lot about this so called “fifth element” recently. Most people say that it’s the spirit and while I don’t disagree, I believe that there is more to it. The way that I see the fifth element is as a culmination of all of the other elements. You could call it “spirit” or “soul”, but I prefer not to name it.
Let’s take the suits of the tarot and arrange them around a pentacle as an analogy, as an example...
Click to expand...
Neat! This is very much like the Chinese cycle of the elements (looks like a Pentacle), with those on the circular border creating/feeding each other, and the interaction between them along the star lines destroying each other.

Here's an example: http://www.freewebs.com/lilliantoofengshu/Interactions_of_Five_Chinese_Elements.jpg
 

Yygdrasilian

Quintessence

Curtis Penfold said:
What is the 5th element? What are its symbols?
Click to expand...
The center of One's compass is a Door to the axis unifying our 4 Trees.
To see the meaning of this requires more than 2 dimensions.
A rising star points the way...

Plato's Timaeus offers the dodecahedron as a Key, yet it may be helpful to consider its' inherent connection to the decagon - especially with regard to Earth & Venus' 8 year synodic cycle of inferior + superior conjunctions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagram#In_Astronomy_and_nature
http://www.eso.org/public/outreach/eduoff/vt-2004/Background/Infol2/vt2004-if11-fig4.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/60/Dodecahedron_petrie.png

8 ---> 11
is a wedding invitation
 

re-pete-a

Quintessence,

The power behind free will
 

Twoflower

I am reminded of "Ku" from the brief exposure I had to martial arts : it's the Japanese expression of the 5th element : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_elements_(Japanese_philosophy)#K.C5.AB
 

Chanel

I have to ask a friendly question.. Who says it has to be represented by the Pentagram ?

My deck, A King's Journey, is actually corresponded to the celtic cross, which I feel represents the circle of life more adequately.

Chatmauve.. mentioned that we are not happy until we go through all the elements, which I agree. In my model, we are not 'happy' and I would say.. ' content' unless we are balanced in our mundane life, which are the four elements of earth, air, fire, and water. Only after that, can we evolve spiritually.

I'm curious why you feel we can not add cards? For me, I felt that the World was the elements complete, but we need to take a step inside ourselves, the hidden unknown. After our spiritual journey, that is when we change some of our core beliefs.

The celtic cross makes sense to me. :) In A King's Journey, the castle (soul) is in the center of the Kingdom, which rises above the elements. The Kingdom is divided into the four elements. The idea is that once the foundation is strengthened by the elements, then you can build up your kingdom / your fortress, and reside comfortably in your world, and begin striving for the next level on the spiritual plane.
 

Chatmauve

Chanel said:
I have to ask a friendly question.. Who says it has to be represented by the Pentagram ?

My deck, A King's Journey, is actually corresponded to the celtic cross, which I feel represents the circle of life more adequately.
Click to expand...

The pentagram is simply an easy way to order the number five. I own one that I wear at all time and since I have been seeing it daily, it's the simplest way for me to picture five elements. You could use any shape really. In a Celtic cross, the fifth element would likely be at the middle where the celtic knot often starts and ends.

I say that I would not add cards to represent the fifth element as I see it because, to keep it simple (lack of sleep, sorry), I see that fifth element as the result of the other four. I see the "fifth suit" as the result of the first four. Sure, you could create a card with all of the elements on it and call it "culmination" but that card would be out of context. Too enormous for the reading. It would mean everything, strip the meaning of all the other cards and thus mean nothing at all.

I can't see a card like that. For me, the fifth element is represented with the feeling that you get when you see the spread as a whole. When you have seen all of the cards in all of their positions. That feeling is the culmination of the whole reading and it is only you who can make sense out of it and make your best to show it to the person in front of you. No card can do that.

If it was really vital to add a new card, I would add a blank card. This card would have no meaning while having all of them. The reader would have to put its own emotion over it. The card could mean anything going on the context of the spread, the problem of the person, the "feel" of the reading.

( However, I have nothing for new cards in general, but I can't see cards of a "fifth" element as I see it. )
[EDIT: Removed some of the quotation as the post is right above mine.]
 

re-pete-a

The road to the 5th element starts at the world and goes back to the fool.
A process of release.

Not a common viewpoint but experience has led to this overview.
 

Chanel

re-pete-a said:
The road to the 5th element starts at the world and goes back to the fool.
A process of release.

Not a common viewpoint but experience has led to this overview.
Click to expand...


Exactly! When I was creating A King's JOurney, I realized that the Fool ends the elements at the door of the castle in Judgment, which is likened in my deck to coming back home and ready to take on his responsibilities at his own right.

At that point, he has to go from the World back to the Fool. How does he do this? In my deck the spiritual element is made up of virtues and spiritual gifts. These are spiritual lessons that he must now go through, ending up at the Soul card. The soul card depicts the Fool giving a 'seed' to his child, which takes us back to the Fool card again.

I don't think we are finished when we come to the door of the Spirit element. There is still work to be done, we are still evolving, even on that plane of being. The cycles will continue.

Chatmauve.. Yes, the spirit is in the middle of the celtic cross.
 

Chatmauve

Chanel said:
Exactly! When I was creating A King's JOurney, I realized that the Fool ends the elements at the door of the castle in Judgment, which is likened in my deck to coming back home and ready to take on his responsibilities at his own right.
Click to expand...

Always feel strange when you learn that people have similar beliefs to yours when you came out with them by yourself. I guess that great minds think alike :p.

But more seriously, I quite like the way that you have "pictured it" as a castle, as a kingdom. It is easier to understand than my "3d pentagram" and it makes for some great mind pictures !
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/8937/96718657.jpg

To clarify, I have nothing against a "soul card" that tell the person to look inside. Where I have difficulty is adding a card that would mean everything that "my fifth element" means.
 
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