Please help with finding a thread on the Minchiate

[Metafizzypop]

Some time ago, several months back or longer, I came across a thread on the Minchiate in which people were discussing the meanings of the cards. Someone had found, and posted a link to, a booklet that had some meanings, but the booklet was in Italian. It was an interesting find, but since at the time I wasn't interested in the Minchiate, I didn't pay much
attention. But lately I'm getting curious about this deck, and would love to find this link again. (There's no problem reading the booklet because I'm Italian.)

I am not sure whether the link was for an actual booklet that the person had scanned, or if it was a link to another website that showed the booklet. For some reason the name Trionfi sticks in my head, but I'm not sure if that means anything.

Anyway, I have searched and searched and not been able to find the thread that had the link to this booklet. I have tried every possible keyword, and every combination of keywords. Tons of threads come up, but a lot of them are several pages long, and looking through every page, and checking links......It's a ton of material to go through. I tried doing it, but got nowhere.

Does anyone here know anything about this booklet that I'm talking about and how to find the link to it? Any help would be appreciated.

[Moonbow]

If you look in the Index within the Index here in the Marseilles forum you will find the original Index of threads by jmd and there you will find the Minchiate threads, perhaps its one of those.

[Metafizzypop]

Hi Moonbow, thanks for your reply. I checked out the index in the index thing and I wasn't able to find what I wanted. OTOH, I found lots of other really interestng stuff about the Minchiate, and also the Marseille decks, etc. that was great. I didn't even know it was there. So thanks for the tip!

ETA: I'm still looking for that link that I was talking about in the OP, so if anyone knows anything, I'd love to hear from you.

[Fire Cat]

The only LWB that I have that came with my Minchis were the Kaplan and the Italian one that came with the Fiorentine Solleone (the Costantini in the sandalwood box). [I can't remember if the Etruria came with an LWB.] Mr. Kaplan can chime in here, but it appears that he translated the Italian into English; or was it the other way around ?

U.S. Games may be able to furnish you an LWB if you contact them.

I'm sure you've run across it, but http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=21032 has an interesting discussion about Trumps II-IIII, in particular, Moonbow's quote of Tom Tadfor Little.

[Metafizzypop]

Hi Fire Cat. There's an Italian book that came with the Fiorentine Solleone? Maybe that's what the missing link that I was talking about was for.

The link you gave to the thread was a good discussion and had a lot of links. I checked out almost all of them. Too bad, none were the one I was looking for. But anyway, you gave me some ideas, and some leads, so at least I've got a trail to follow. Thanks for your help.

Also, would love if Frank Kaplan chimed in. Would make my day, lol.

[Fire Cat]

Not him the other one ha. (I feel bad talking about him!)

[La Force]

well I have good new for you, I know exactly what your looking for, and yes it is barried here in the forum, very hard to find, I will search for it, should I be not able to locate again, don't you worry I was smart and printed it off. So you know there was someone at the time that was able to translate it to english so I have the english version.

I will take some pictures of what I printed okay.

ETA: to no avail was I able to find that thread it is in the most unlikely thread, that is why it is hard to find. anyways I took some pictures of my printed copy of the origninal Minichiate LWB translated to english

ETA #2: Huck here has a website, I know he has links to the Minichiate LWB of both Deck versions someone here I sure has the links to his site where you would be able to find them, I also recall that one is in Italian and don't remember which deck (LWB) is sorry.

follow the picture number for pages 6 = pg1 and so on.

[Metafizzypop]

Hey thanks, La Force, for the booklet. Nice of you to post it here. It was very interesting, indeed. So this is the English translation of the Italian booklet? I speak Italian, so it would have been a kick to see the original version. But if this is a translation of that booklet, then it's good, too. It's fascinating learning about this deck, so having the LWB in any language is great.

But what I find interesting about all this is that, looking at the pips 1-10, a lot of the meanings are similar to the RWS system. Yet the Minchiate predates the RWS by centuries. I had expected something totally different. It would be great to know if these were truly the meanings that were originally used when the deck was first created. But I guess that's a topic for a whole 'nother thread.

[La Force]

Originally Posted by Metafizzypop

Hey thanks, La Force, for the booklet. Nice of you to post it here. It was very interesting, indeed. So this is the English translation of the Italian booklet? I speak Italian, so it would have been a kick to see the original version. But if this is a translation of that booklet, then it's good, too. It's fascinating learning about this deck, so having the LWB in any language is great.

your welcome

But what I find interesting about all this is that, looking at the pips 1-10, a lot of the meanings are similar to the RWS system. Yet the Minchiate predates the RWS by centuries. I had expected something totally different. It would be great to know if these were truly the meanings that were originally used when the deck was first created. But I guess that's a topic for a whole 'nother thread.

The LWB came out/printed after RW, so that is why it is similar to the RWS system.

Should you want to follow the best known method that is before RWS system (historically speaking) I suggest Old Mel's fashion method for the 22 majors and pips, the courts really just are symbols/represent for people/person of status, there is no astrology attached to them, the horoscope card follow the horoscope so you can find lots of info on horoscopes, the 4 element cards (water, fire, air, earth) are the elements the aces are just the number one and are connected to the element card. do you get what I mean.

Example

Aries = Aries in astrology (personality, traits, work/career, romance, etc) you can find all this on the internet and make your own meaning to the cards. I will post an example below cause it is quite long.

Fire = Fire element (Fire Card in the major arcana)
Ace = one Numerology + element
two = two Numerology + element
and so on

Page = young boy/girl train to be a knight + humors
and so on

Here is what I did with all the astrological cards in the major arcana.

Example:

ARIES
The Ram
March 21 to April 20 Aries Traits

Keywords: active, initiating, leading, independent, aggressive, impatient, combative, energetic, pioneering, naive, assertive

Adventurous and energetic
Pioneering and courageous
Enthusiastic and confident
Dynamic and quick-witted

On the dark side...

Selfish and quick-tempered
Impulsive and impatient
Foolhardy and daredevil

LIKES
Action
Coming in first
Challenges
Championing Causes
Spontaneity

DISLIKES
Waiting Around
Admitting Failure
No opposition
Tyranny
Other peoples advice


Aries Strength Keywords:

- Independent
- Generous
- Optimistic
- Enthusiastic
- Courageous

Aries strength
Your strong belief that courage is mastery of fear, is your strength. Your ability to overcome fear is your biggest strength..

Aries Weakness Keywords:

- Moody
- Short tempered
- Self-involved
- Impulsive
- Impatient

Aries weakness
Your weakness is that you cannot accomplish the tasks you begin.

Aries Habits:
Arians get into good and bad habits easily and once they do that, they hardly come out of it

Aries and Independence:
Aries personalities are independent. Being the first of the zodiac signs, they venture out and are go-getters, often leading the way. Their upbeat and magnetic personality often entices others to follow their lead because Aries personalities bring excitement into others lives.

Aries and Friendship:
Aries are good friends, they always look out for their friends with caring and generosity and will protect them should the need arise and encourage them with their natural optimism. If confronted, Aries can turn to be quite childish, they will fight back with their agressive nature and are known to have temper tantrums should they not get their way.

Aries and Business:
Aries are activists. If a business idea comes their way, they tend to plunge right in. Aries are more then willing to take a gamble and follow their dreams and goals. However, if success is not immediate, they tend to lose interest and give up easily. Aries are notorious for not finishing what they have begun. This is due to the low tolerance for boredom and lack of patience. If the excitement is gone from their business idea, they go off and search for it elsewhere.

Aries Temperament:
Independence is key to Aries astrology, they do not like to take orders from others and enjoy getting their way. They can get childish or moody should they be given orders that they do not like. Aries easily take offense to comments made. Aries are self-involved and can be self-centered, if they do not pay attention to the feelings of others, Aries can easily become spoiled and resented by others. In order to get their way, Aries will tell a lie if it seems advantageous to do so. They are however, not very good liars and other people can usually see through them.

Aries Deep Inside:
Underneath the strong, independent surface may lie insecurity. This is due to the intense drive to succeed and Aries put too much pressure on themselves, thus resulting in self-doubt however, the natural optimism and enthusiasm overtakes this and the underlying insecurity may never be known to others.

Aries in a Nutshell:
Aries is the first of the zodiac signs. Aries is the sign of the self, people born under this sign strongly project their personalities onto others and can be very self-oriented. Aries tend to venture out into the world and leave impressions on others that they are exciting, vibrant and talkative. Aries tend to live adventurous lives and like to be the center of attention, but rightly so since they are natural, confident leaders. Aries are enthusiastic about their goals and enjoy the thrill of the hunt, "wanting is always better then getting" is a good way to sum it up. Aries are very impulsive and usually do not think before they act - or speak. Too often Aries will say whatever pops into their head and usually end up regretting it later!

PROBLEM: Projects that come to nothing. Partnerships full of conflict and argument.
SOLUTION: See your role as the "person with ideas" then, work on inspiring others to carry them out. Develop a higher capacity to "listen" and not speak.

PROBLEM: Lacking real coherence and direction. Failing to contemplate, only pretending to be decisive.
SOLUTION: What springs from your actions is only a reflection of your heart. Soul search and resolve some personal issues you may have buried.

PROBLEM: Being deserted by others because they cannot make you notice them and their feelings in any other way.
SOLUTION: If you truly have a point, if you don't they won't. Examine your attitude and put yourself in their shoes.

PROBLEM: Always tripping over yourself, inviting conflict and harsh treatment. Getting deflated.
SOLUTION: Learn the art of looking before you leap. Which means first finding out what it is you wish to make happen first, then act.


I hope this will help you find your way with the Minchiate, you will just have to play with the deck find your own system.

La Force

[Metafizzypop]

Originally Posted by La Force

The LWB came out/printed after RW, so that is why it is similar to the RWS system.

Should you want to follow the best known method that is before RWS system (historically speaking) I suggest Old Mel's fashion method for the 22 majors and pips, the courts really just are symbols/represent for people/person of status, there is no astrology attached to them, the horoscope card follow the horoscope so you can find lots of info on horoscopes, the 4 element cards (water, fire, air, earth) are the elements the aces are just the number one and are connected to the element card. do you get what I mean.

La Force, thanks again for supplying some great info. And indeed, I had been thinking about checking out Old Mel's threads. That's based on the Marseilles system, isn't it? That system seems to me would suit the Minchiate really well, and I could see integrating those meanings along with the ones in the LWB.

Fortunately, I'm very familiar with astrology, so the addition of the 12 zodiac signs in the cards I think would be easy for me to adapt to. The info about Aires that you supplied was interesting to me; it was very inclusive and detailed. I have an Aires moon, and I could see a lot of my psychology in the descriptions. A lot to think about, especially in those not-so-good traits....