XI. Lust - Woman on a lion

JadoreHauteCouture

Hey there, i was going through all the Lust card threads here and since this issue did not seem to be covered from this point of view at all, I decided to create a new thread to open a discussion about it...

I recently posted my review on "woman on a lion" symbolism in Mary-el study group and since this card was inspired by Thoth Tarot, I decided to repost the review here to get new ideas/povs from other members as well... but in this case, on Thoth's Lust card...

here is the Mary-el Strength card:
http://www.mary-el.com/11.html

and here is the repost of my review on "Naked woman on a lion"

I dont agree with any of these interpretations at all... Maybe my point of view is totally opposite or extreme but i guess i join in with my 2 cents..

So the streght is generally about becoming yourself... finding your true potential and being who you are... like a lion, being fearless, knowing who you are and what you want...
We can see that by zebras in the background... they represent the outer world that is naturally offered to lion... his possibilities and purpose.... Lion is a predator and his purpose is to explore, dominate, ravage, to be the king of the jungle (in human case, being on top, king of the world)...

yes, he is starring at the zebras, but he is not hunting them, not even following them... the lion, paradoxly is enslaved... he is not waiting to hunt them, he is not even preparing either... lion naturally knows what he needs to do, and he naturally knows how to do it... he knows how to hunt... there is no need for preparation...

Now... I dont know where people are getting all these romantical ideas.. it is a naked slim smouldering woman on a lion in both Mary-el/Thoth... no one finds that at least puzzling, not even disturbing???
The image is not about a lion at all... It is a metaphore for a man... A man - natural hunter since ancient times - who knows what he wants and how to get it... Naked woman represents a seduction/a sin... it represents a woman who distracts the man from following his own purpose and being himself, just to get some... and you know what i mean... her p...y... thats why the woman is not afraid of the lion and she has him BETWEEN her legs... to make him forget his essence, who he is, and control him through sex, pleasure and earthy desires...

the lion should stay who he is... a hunter... (you can imagine a fearless enterpreneuer, who is successful in his business and gets what he wants, house, cars, clothes and so on)... lion should find another lioness who will simply accept him as his equal mate, let him be a king of the jungle and simply have a mutual love and create family...

now this woman comes into the scene... since she is on top of the lion, it automatically talks about inequality... the woman controls lion in every single way.... the top became a bottom... and how she controls him? through sex, desires, being naked and also through flashy clothers, low V-necks, miniskirts, make-up and jewelery... thats why she is naked but only has pearl ring and necklace... (it could be prayer beads, but i dont see the cross and the beads looks too pearl-like, expensive)... shes totally naked... why she wears a pearl ring? maybe shes wearing also 10-inches pornstar stilletos too?

This picture talks about a man who is successful, king of the world, but finds some bimbo who starts to controlling him through sex... instead of finding equal woman who is accepting him and letting him be free, he finds this supermodel that only pleases his libido, instead of supporting him to fulfill his dreams... I mean, why do you guys think the Thoth's Strenght is called "The Lust"???? This man buys this woman expensive stuff and jewelery and focuses on conquering her instead of those zebras... and this woman only prays that she wins and chains him down through the sex. She hopes the man doesnt realize he is being controlled and he is pursuing only flashy box with nothing inside...

If you want prayers to find answers, I would personally pull High Priestess (intuition), High Priest (knowledge) or hermit (inner studies) to go inside and prepare. or in case of preparation chariot or again hermit (inner studies)... The Streght card is about people who have naturally everything they need to become successful and they need to find inner courage/strenght to go out and get them and resist the temptation on the road....

This card paired with 7 cups is the deadliest combinations... the best way to be trapped into passivity instead of working on yourself and progressing, but being fully controlled by pleasures and lust...

one of the most negative cards with one of the biggest potentials but also with the biggest challenges... resist something our sinful nature dies for, so that we can become better ourselves...

i know too many men who got enslaved by sex and desires... they were so smart and successful but they got deceived by sex and they didnt even realize it and this woman had full control of their life and finances, not letting them to pursue anything they liked and used to do before... successful man turned into a coward by dictator-like woman who constantly tells him how to do things, yet she has absolutely no idea how to do them. A gay man who is stuck in marriage, but he cannot become himself/happy with another man, cuz a woman controls him, she can allow him to sleep with other men (lust), but she fully controls his life, his finances, his family, his time and hobbies, his dreams, his reputation... A man with amazing potential who got deceited by a smouldering gold-digger, she got pregnant and turned him into a baby daddy, now she controls him through the baby and paying all her bills, he gives her money that she uses on expensive manicure and hair saloons rather than baby... This card is about demasculating a man (a person) by trapping him into sinful and lustful nature... I dont see anything romantic about that... People need to find XI. Strenght to resist temptation... Naked woman on a lion always represents temptation...

here is the Thoth card:
http://www.energyenhancement.org/Thoth-Tarot-Lust.jpg

I know that Crowley has turned the lion into the beast, but this card still remains heavily sexual and we can see "Woman on a lion" on many Crowley inspired decks (like Initiatory tarot of the Golden Dawn)...

your opinion, guys???
 

Zephyros

Frieda Harris, at the exhibition, told a young boy who asked her about this card something like "imagine wanting a chocolate very badly. Now imagine the feeling you get when you finally get the chocolate. That feeling is what this card is about."

Traditional Strength cards seem to speak of a certain serenity, of finding quiet strength in the face of odd. Not so Lust. Lust is about the ecstasy of that same internal power, being drunk on it, consumed by it. The final realization of what you True Will is, the happiness and sexual drunkenness that go with absolute certainty.

I'm not well versed on the subject, but Aeon once told me that K&C is achieved at the intersection where Lust meets the Priestess, which certainly makes sense. The woman is a harlot, but in a very sublime and holy sense, accepting all, denying none. As Babalon, she holds all existence in her womb, and every man and woman exist inside her, and she is in a constant state of wanton abandon, as every action of True Will is in fact an action of making love to her. "Existence is pure joy."

A very exciting card, one that, when meditated upon, does not evoke in me either serenity or peace but... well, I suppose I'll just say "excitement," and leave it at that. :D
 

Aeon418

your opinion, guys???

It's hard to know where to begin. It might help if I point out that the 7 heads of the Beast relate to the 7 chakras. That gives you a direct link back to sexual energy. The reigns held by the woman are big clue too. Look where the loop is. This energy can be expressed and grounded through sex. (There's nothing wrong with that. ;)) Then again this 'desire force' can also be directed into spiritual growth. It all depends on where you want to go and what you want to do. It's not a moral issue though.
 

Aeon418

AL II:26. I am the secret Serpent coiled about to spring: in my coiling there is joy. If I lift up my head, I and my Nuit are one. If I droop down mine head, and shoot forth venom, then is rapture of the earth, and I and the earth are one.
 

Zephyros

AL II:26. I am the secret Serpent coiled about to spring: in my coiling there is joy. If I lift up my head, I and my Nuit are one. If I droop down mine head, and shoot forth venom, then is rapture of the earth, and I and the earth are one.

This verse also seems to me to go back to the updated IAO formula. Before, the formula was seen in that the phallus, after having spent its energy, was, well, spent and powerless. This verse seems to imply that it is not spent, but rather the principle of conservation of energy is at work. Nothing dies or goes away, merely transforms into something else.
 

Aeon418

This verse seems to imply that it is not spent, but rather the principle of conservation of energy is at work. Nothing dies or goes away, merely transforms into something else.

Which is interesting when you remember that Atu XI is closely connected with Atu VIII via a certain swap. (Hadit identifies himself with both 8 and 11. See AL II:15-16.)

This linked 'swap around' is mirrored by the Star/Emperor switch. What's the difference between the 'brooding Spirit' of creation of Atu XVII and the fiery Kundalini desire force of Atu IV? Not much. They're both aspects of one thing.
 

Aeon418

The final realization of what you True Will is, the happiness and sexual drunkenness that go with absolute certainty.

You might like to meditate on the short holy book, Liber 66. It is directly connected to Atu XI. Jim Eshelman did a very enlightening commentary on this liber in Black Pearl issue 7, I think.

http://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib66.html

63. Thinkest thou? I, the force that have created all, am not to be despised.
64. And I will slay thee in my lust.
65. Thou shalt scream with the joy and the pain and the fear and the love—so that the ΛΟΓΟΣ of a new God leaps out among the Stars.
66. There shall be no sound heard but this thy lion-roar of rapture; yea, this thy lion-roar of rapture.
 

ravenest

your opinion, guys???

Errrr ... that would be a book in itself considering the VAST field this card opens up!

One thing to look at , although obvious but often missed is that 'woman and beast' can represent forces and polarities IN you. I see a relationship, in this regard, to the polarity expressed in Liber Resh with Tahuti and Ra-Hoor.
 

Aeon418

One thing to look at , although obvious but often missed is that 'woman and beast' can represent forces and polarities IN you.

Exactly. The establishemnt of 'right relation' is fundamental to any sense of wholeness of the self. Without it you're liable to project the imbalance outward on to a convenient 'target'. You can blame all your woes on the opposite gender all you want, but until you heal the wound within nothing will change.
 

ravenest

true ... I am also seeing it beyond gender.

That woman on the lion beast and Tahuti ( at the prow ... so to speak), IMO have a similar message for the self ( different than it was as a new Aeon is manifesting) as do the beast himself and Ra-Hoor 'at the helm'.

We all have a 'helm' (steering and driving force) and a 'motive beast' within, we all also have a visionary and 'inituitive' process that could do with turn 'at the prow'.

Both images IMO are there to help bring in, adjust and balance these forces.