Thoth Prince of Swords

Well I did want to get my ideas from the image itself first before consulting The Book but here Crowley does say the mini-me's are children:

"This chariot is drawn by winged children, looking and leaping irresponsibly in any direction that takes their fancy; they are not reined, but perfectly capricious. The chariot consequently is easy enough to move, but quite unable to progress in any definite direction except by accident. This is a perfect picture of the mind"

and

"In his right hand is a lifted sword wherewith to create, but in his left hand a sickle, so that what h creates is instantly destroyed".

firemaiden said:

That is interesting. Do you think this Jolly Green Giant is a supposed to be Chronos? (That would be cool) (she said, going off to consult Thoth)

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I don't know, maybe. It's an interesting idea.

From what I understand, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, Crowley wrote his book first and then Harris illustrated it. Just by looking at the image and reading what Harris wrote about it they seem to be at odds on this one.

My very first pull with the Thoth, asking it to introduce itself to me, it's key, it gave the Prince of Swords.

Great discussion on this card. It's one that I've been struggling with myself and so I appreciate everyone's ideas. I was always trying to work out how the astrological attribution fitted in (ie. Capricorn/Aquarius). I like the idea of the Sickle relating to Saturn. This thread has prompted me to spend some more time with this card.

I've been thinking carefully about what Harris wrote concerning this card, specifically "the scientific outlook, which uses but limits the imagination." In the image we have a complete illustration of this concept. The card itself corresponds partly to Aquarius and partly to Capricorn. In the Prince's right hand is the sword which illustrates the creative mind at work (Aquarius). In his left is the sickle (Capricorn). I believe in this case the sickle represents the "limiting" factor of which Harris speaks; it is the cyclical aspect of space/time, within which all scientific work takes place. It is interesting to note that the same hand that holds the sickle is also that which holds to reins of imagaination.

This is admittedly a pretty metaphysical interpretation, but it all seems to fit.

It's worth comparing this card with the 6 of Swords. They both correspond to Tiphareth in Yetzirah.

A bit opposite.

Abrac said:

DuQuette says: "The final version is full of mad, seemingly futile movement." and "The children pull at the chariot "irresponsibly" in any direction that takes their fancy; they are not reined, but perfectly capricious."

I don't know what deck he's looking at, but I see children who are reined in. There is no futile movement. The Prince has his sword & sickle and is moving forward with control and purpose.

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Agreed. I see the card differently to most of the above posters. (We used to call this card by a nick- name - they all had nick-names in Tarot workshop). WE called it; 'Whip the bubbas'. yes they are children, yes they are reigned in and the swords can appear like whips. (No everything is not moving backwards in reverse motion - ???) The three capricious children MUST be bought under control of the Prince and be directed according to his will, otherwise their forward movement is a vector average of all three's wild and unfocused pulling.

This prince can be seen as the Yogi that forces the body to get up before dawn and do the practice. The three children of course represent the 3 gunas. In this respect this Prince is like CICT - the 'One in the centre of the Triangle'.

"Feeling, and thought, and ecstasy
Are but the cerements of Me.
Thrown off like planets from the Sun
Ye are but satellites of the One.
But should your revolution stop

Ye would inevitably drop
Headlong within the central Soul,
And all the parts become the Whole.
Sloth and activity and peace,
When will ye learn that ye must cease?"

AC - Rite of Jupiter.

It CAN be message to get tough with yourself and get your House (gunas) in order!

Aeon418 said:

It's worth comparing this card with the 6 of Swords. They both correspond to Tiphareth in Yetzirah.

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Okay, duly comparing. But I see a positive, balanced, calm card in the Six, whereas the whole tone and feel of the Prince is fraught and distressed. Is this a figment of my imagination/prejudice, or is there a reason for this? Are they two sides of the same coin? Does the Six portray the energy of intellect and its potential for application, while the Prince shows it in its pure form, uncontrolled and disastrous?

\m/ kat

ravenest said:

Agreed. I see the card differently to most of the above posters. (We used to call this card by a nick- name - they all had nick-names in Tarot workshop). WE called it; 'Whip the bubbas'. yes they are children, yes they are reigned in and the swords can appear like whips. (No everything is not moving backwards in reverse motion - ???) The three capricious children MUST be bought under control of the Prince and be directed according to his will, otherwise their forward movement is a vector average of all three's wild and unfocused pulling.

This prince can be seen as the Yogi that forces the body to get up before dawn and do the practice. The three children of course represent the 3 gunas. In this respect this Prince is like CICT - the 'One in the centre of the Triangle'.

"Feeling, and thought, and ecstasy
Are but the cerements of Me.
Thrown off like planets from the Sun
Ye are but satellites of the One.
But should your revolution stop

Ye would inevitably drop
Headlong within the central Soul,
And all the parts become the Whole.
Sloth and activity and peace,
When will ye learn that ye must cease?"

AC - Rite of Jupiter.

It CAN be message to get tough with yourself and get your House (gunas) in order!

Click to expand...

So this passage is about bringing your gunas (feeling, thought and ecstasy??) into line with one's will, rather than having them orbiting further out where their gravity could be exaggerated? Like those ice-skaters, when they spin really really fast with their limbs close in, but slow down when they move their legs or arms out further from their bodies?

\m/ Kat

thorhammer said:

Okay, duly comparing. But I see a positive, balanced, calm card in the Six, whereas the whole tone and feel of the Prince is fraught and distressed.

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Ah, but that balanced calm is the positive outcome of the 6 of Swords. How it got to that position is the reason why Crowley called that card, Science.

Other meanings include: Labour. Work. Success after anxiety. Passage from difficulty.

Spontaneous breakthroughs in science are very rare. The vast majority of science is based on trial and error. The scientist sets up an experiment. Observes the result and tries to identify what went wrong, so that he/she can set up a new experiment. The process is repeated again and again and again until success is achieved. The method of science is a journey (a journey by water?) that is based upon making mistakes and learning from them. (Like a child?) It's hardly ever plain sailing.