Aeclectic Tarot
Tarot Cards & Reviews Free Tarot Readings Tarot Books Tarot Card Meanings Tarot Forum

Magic symbols on the seven of swords - HELP

  > Aeclectic Tarot Forum > Tarot Special Interest > Thoth Tarot


 
tarotica's Avatar
tarotica  tarotica is offline
Resident
 
Join Date: 13 Nov 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 5
tarotica 
Re: Magic symbols on the seven of swords - HELP


Quote:
Originally posted by firemaiden
Help! Are there any hardcore Crowley students out? I need to know what the magic symbols mean on the handles of the seven swords. They have very curious shapes, and are screaming *SYMBOL**SYMBOL**SYMBOL* He doesn't say anything about them in the Book of Thoth (I've noticed he doesn't give away much of the cards secrets).
In fact, he tells a great deal. Often, what seems to be his hesitancy to reveal "secrets" is just the reader's lack of knowledge operating in an arrogantly whiny fashion. "Book of Thoth" is presently being read by many people who have not even the basic education, about much of anything, to read it as it was intended to be read. That's why Duquette published an idiot's guide, to try to make things kinder and gentler---and much dumber.

See, the thing is, you SHOULD readily recognize those planetary symbols on the sword handles. They are part of a very basic occult language used in the presentation of Thoth cards. If you don't get this, you can't blame Crowley, for he does in fact provide a considerable amount of information, in "Book of Thoth" itself, that explains even these basics as he has chosen to use them. For example, refer to page 275 of BoT and you should see a clear answer to your question. If you don't see the clear answer, then Thoth may not be for you. It is not in any way an easy deck, but it was not designed to be nearly as difficult as many people seem to need to make it out to be.
Top   #21
firemaiden's Avatar
firemaiden  firemaiden is offline
keeper of the toaster
 
Join Date: 07 Jun 2002
Location: Poitiers, France
Posts: 10,828
firemaiden 

That's quite a scolding, tarotica! I don't deserve that! Nor does anyone else need to be made to feel stupid for asking a question, ever! I am not "blaming" Crowley, either, that is a strangely negative way of interpreting the excitement in discovering new things not explicitely mentioned in the card.

Furthermore, there are hidden depths to every card, that can be mined far far far beyond anything he might have intended, because that is the way art works.

The Book of Thoth is fascinating and charming to read, but his paragraph about the seven of swords, is meagre.

Here is what he wrote for the Seven of Swords in the book of Thoth:
Quote:
Netzach, in the suit of Swords, does not represent such catastrope as in the other suits, for Netzach, the Sephira of Venus means victory. There is, therefore a modifying influence; and this is accentuated by the celestial rule of the Moon in Aquarius.

The intellectual wreckage of the card is thus not so vehement as in the Five. There is vacillation, a wish to compromise, a certain toleration. But, in certain cirucmstances, the results may be more disastrous than ever. This naturally depends upon the success of the policy. This is always in doubt as long as there exist violent, uncompromising forces which take it as a natural prey.

This card like the Four, suggests the policty of appeasement.

The symbol shows six Swords with their hilts in crescent formation. Their points meet below the center of the card, impinging upon a blade of a much larger up-thrusting sword, as if there were a contest between the many feeble and the one strong. He strives in vain.
Top   #22
kwaw's Avatar
kwaw  kwaw is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 29 Dec 2003
Location: Nr. Ephesus, Turkey
Posts: 5,400
kwaw 

Hi fire maiden

Tarotika's comments were harsh. Too an extent however I agree that these planetary symbols are pretty basic and elementary to an understanding of the this or any occult deck. I have in the past recommended the BoT as a beginners book, as it one of my first texts and I found it fairly straigtforward and full of information. Thereagain I came to it with a basic knowledge of astrological and ToL symbolism, and without such basic knowledge and the ability to recognise such elementary symbols it is maybe not such a good 'introductory' text.

However, having said that, I feel your interpretations, your chess and tulip intuitional insights, offer a genuine and valuable new insight into this card that may have been lost if you were restricted to an understanding and limited to an interpretaton of these particular symbols.

Whether it was intended by Crowley/Harris as part of the original design or not [given Crowley's interest in Chess, that part may have been), I feel I have learnt a great deal by your sharing of your own exploration of the symbolism of this card, and appreciate it very much. A few symbols in the end are pretty easy to remember, but in the end are unimportant in relation to revelation. While your understanding of some of the basic symbolism maybe poor, I think that such are easily learnt but the genuine and original insight you have shown is an individual gift that I am sure will prove far more beneficial to your individual development than the knowledge to recognise a particular symbol [which will come with time, study and experience].

Kwaw
Top   #23
tmgrl2's Avatar
tmgrl2  tmgrl2 is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 15 Feb 2004
Location: NY, US
Posts: 8,368
tmgrl2 

Quote:
Originally posted by kwaw
[B]Hi fire maiden

Too an extent however I agree that these planetary symbols are pretty basic. I have in the past recommended the BoT as a beginners book, as it one of my first texts and I found it fairly straigtforward and full of information. Thereagain I came to it with a basic knowledge of astrological and ToL symbolism, and without such basic knowledge and the ability to recognise such elementary symbols it is maybe not such a good 'introductory' text.
Thanks for your posting, Kwaw...I agree with you...that's why we have that great little box about reporting posts....I do use it! We don't need to discourage new members or elders....this is a safe, loving website that encourages open dialogue exchanged in a kind fashion. The Aeclectic Tarot police should have banned me at least a hundred times this past month for my questions...and I AM a newcomer...not an experienced and "knowledgable" member.

I am always awed, too, by your knowledge, Kwaw...You really know your stuff...no one can no everything about everything...
does that cover everything? That being said ...what does ToL symbolism stand for...completely out of my area of learning right now...thanks...I always ask whatever I need to know...and am pleased with the gracious replies I receive...the humor here, is also great!


I tried to follow that wonderful thread where you posted with others...can't name posters because I don't remember now..but it was a dialogue about the alphabet allusions....Was way beyond my area of understanding....but that's why we have so many varied threads...

Thanks to you and Thanks, firemaiden, for all you do for Aeclectic
Nice thing about a well-moderated website....report, delete, gone....or at least ignored by most.

terri
Top   #24
tmgrl2's Avatar
tmgrl2  tmgrl2 is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 15 Feb 2004
Location: NY, US
Posts: 8,368
tmgrl2 

Quote:
Originally posted by kwaw
Hi fire maiden

However, having said that, I feel your interpretations, your chess and tulip intuitional insights, offer a genuine and valuable new insight into this card that may have been lost if you were restricted to an understanding and limited to an interpretaton of these particular symbols.

Whether it was intended by Crowley/Harris as part of the original design or not [given Crowley's interest in Chess, that part may have been), I feel I have learnt a great deal by your sharing of your own exploration of the symbolism of this card, and appreciate it very much. A few symbols in the end are pretty easy to remember, but in the end are unimportant in relation to revelation. While your understanding of some of the basic symbolism maybe poor, I think that such are easily learnt but the genuine and original insight you have shown is an individual gift that I am sure will prove far more beneficial to your individual delvelopment than the knowledge to recognise a particular symbol [which will come with time, study and experience].

Kwaw
Sorry, Kwaw, I didn't mean to edit out the good stuff you said in your post....so am reposting with it...since firemaiden deserves those kind words to read AGAIN from you....terri
Top   #25
starsongs's Avatar
starsongs  starsongs is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 25 Sep 2003
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 1,037
starsongs 
Thumbs up


Quote:
Originally posted by kwaw

However, having said that, I feel your interpretations, your chess and tulip intuitional insights, offer a genuine and valuable new insight into this card that may have been lost if you were restricted to an understanding and limited to an interpretaton of these particular symbols.

Whether it was intended by Crowley/Harris as part of the original design or not [given Crowley's interest in Chess, that part may have been), I feel I have learnt a great deal by your sharing of your own exploration of the symbolism of this card, and appreciate it very much. A few symbols in the end are pretty easy to remember, but in the end are unimportant in relation to revelation.
Kwaw
I totally agree with this and would not have missed the discussion for the world!

starsongs
Top   #26
Kaz's Avatar
Kaz  Kaz is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 28 Oct 2001
Location: netherlands
Posts: 2,070
Kaz 
Exclamation


to all and everyone here:

1) stick to forum regulations, when you signed up you agreed with them. read them again if you have forgotten.
2) let moderators do their work, thats what they are here for. if you have a problem with a moderator, contact admin.
3) gonna close this thread if this will stay personal.

moderator
kaz
Top   #27
Emily's Avatar
Emily  Emily is offline
Wanderer
 
Join Date: 14 Feb 2002
Location: England
Posts: 7,664
Emily 

I've enjoyed reading this discussion on the seven of swords - its been very enlightening, I also didn't recognise the symbols although they looked familiar lol

But I'm sorry Tarotica I don't consider DuQuette's book to be the 'idiots guide' to The Book of Thoth - if not for this book I would never have bought my Book of Thoth.
Top   #28
starsongs's Avatar
starsongs  starsongs is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 25 Sep 2003
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 1,037
starsongs 
More thoughts on 7 of swords


Hi all....

I've had a few thoughts on how the Hekate and Queen on the night might relate to the 7 of swords and the planetary functions.

It you look at how the plants are positioned on the swords you have Venus and Mars on one side of the Moon with the rings intertwined; unity. Venus stands for the Yin functiuon, Mars for the Yang, thus a blending of the male/female within the self.

On the other side there are Jupiter (heart) Mercury (head) and Saturn (structure) the three together could indicate a process through which heart and head were being fused and a new structure was being formed as the old dissolves.

The Moon at the center and detached from the sword appears to be the overseer of the processes. The Moon (in a natal chart) can indicate past forms of expression and the emotional/astral make up of a person.

Hekate is the 3rd of the Triple Moon Goddess functions standing for Wisdom. She is the culmination of a long process of activity. She has learned, through both activity and reflection, the wisdom that can only come from experience. It seems fitting she should appear along with the hierarchical/celestial influences of the moon.


starsongs
Top   #29
Minderwiz's Avatar
Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
Student of Astrology
 
Join Date: 20 Apr 2002
Location: Wigan, UK
Posts: 7,888
Minderwiz 

If I can, with some diffidence, offer an Astrologer's view:

The card shows the triplicity (element) rulers.

In the Centre the Sun rules Fire by Day;

looking at the right hand side; Jupiter at the top rules Fire by night. The next two, Mercury and Saturn rule the Air triplicity by Night and Day respectively.

On the left hand side are the Earth and Water rulers. Mars at the top left rules Water by Night and Day. The next too are Venus which rules Earth by Day and the Moon which rules Earth by night.

The card therefore also shows the confrontation of opposite but equal forces:

Earth/Water v Fire/Air
Female v Male
Negative v Positive
Yin v Yang
Day v Night

(the later from the arrangement with Mars Day, Jupiter night) Venus Day, Mercury Night, Moon Night, Saturn Day.)

It's possible to argue that these confrontations represent a futile struggle, as neither force will triumph.

I hope this helps - I'm sure there's more symbolism than just that.

Edited to improve readability as original was written whilst half asleep
Top   #30




 


 


Tarot Cards & Reviews Free Tarot Readings Tarot Books Tarot Card Meanings Tarot Forum
Aeclectic Tarot Forum Links
· Tarot
· Tarot Special Interest
· Beyond Tarot
· Forum Library

Aeclectic Tarot Categories
· Angel Decks
· Dark & Gothic Decks
· Goddess Decks
· Fairy Decks
· Doreen Virtue Decks
· Beginner Decks
· Cat Decks
· Pagan & Wiccan Decks
· Ancient Egyptian Decks
· Celtic Decks
· Lenormand Decks
· Rider-Waite Decks
· Marseilles Decks
· Thoth Decks
· Oracle Decks
· List All Decks
· Popular Tarot Decks
· Available Decks
· Tarot Books
· What's New

Copyright © 1996 - 2019 Aeclectic Tarot. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy. Contact us.