using the thoth vs. knowing it

fractalgranny

Most readers probably use an intuitive interpretation of the images without taking into account their intended esoteric symbolism. Also, the strange pictures and one's ability to "read" them may really impress some clients.

The Thoth makes heavy use of Qabalah, astrology, alchemy, and Egyptian mythology. I think that being "firmly grounded in the Thoth" should presuppose, at the very least, a certain degree of interest and knowledge of those subjects.

However, use it as thou wilt. My personal opinion matters not a whit.

i hope i didn't come across as claiming that *i* have that grounding because i have just amply illustrated that i don't have it :)
 

UrbanBramble

that's my question. what exactly am i missing out on? i guess it would be useful to get some readings from people firmly grounded in the thoth in order to understand that. maybe i'll post that in the exchanges, see what happens ...

It's something about the combination of all the parts... astrology + Qabballah + Thelema + elemental dignities + color associations + sacred geometry + whatever else Crowley was tripping on at any given time and felt inclined to write about... all of those things come together to make up the whole of the reading in a way that is different than I've experienced with other traditions in Tarot.

I'm sure someone with more experience than me can answer that question in more detail.
 

Richard

i hope i didn't come across as claiming that *i* have that grounding because i have just amply illustrated that i don't have it :)
You have never came across as claiming anything that wasn't true. :)
 

prudence

that's my question. what exactly am i missing out on? i guess it would be useful to get some readings from people firmly grounded in the thoth in order to understand that. maybe i'll post that in the exchanges, see what happens ...
Unfortunately, the folks who read the Thoth as it was meant to be read ie using all of the aforementioned attributions etc, don't tend to read on the forum, and I also note they don't tend to assist any of the members who post readings for help even when the reading is with the Thoth deck. I have always been curious about how a reading would look/work when one uses all that there is to learn/know about the Thoth and Thelema. I know some who use it quite often, but they too use it in a more intuitive way, gregory comes to mind, and she is no slouch at reading cards.

This sort of debate comes up quite often in Lenormand discussions, there are those who use a solid, traditional structure for reading those cards and others who do it with a bit more free wheeling intuition with less structure. I think the sitters are the ones who should have perhaps the last word on how useful a reading was for them and their question.

In real life, all of the readers I know who use Thoth do it with the infamous Angeles Arrien book!! Please, everyone, don't have your heads all explode at once! It will be a huge mess !! I think if you are using Duquette as a reference you are at least doing it more justice than if you used Arrien's book.

I do think it would be enormously helpful to see more reading threads involving those who use Thoth in its entirety. We could all see how well it works, how clear the answers are to the question at hand and why it is truly necessary to use it in this particular fashion in order to give the best reading possible. The icing on the cake would be that anyone reading the threads would get better educated about this deck and it's system, and how to use it effectively in a reading.

PS I do not moderate in this forum, my post is meant to be that of a regular member.
 

fractalgranny

thanks, prudence, yup, this is exactly what i'm looking for. in the meantime, i'm listening to paul hughes-barlow :)
 

Samweiss

When I started learning tarot, I started by doing readings using purely intuition because that was how I assumed it was supposed be done. I didn't get far with it. Most of the time my mind was drawing blank and I just looked at the cards thinking "what I'm supposed to be looking at here?"

Using all these attributions is great because it gives your mind something to latch onto when your intuition is failing. I am not a psychic reader and I'm using all the possible tools available to aid me. The most important skill I've learned using attributions is how the cards relate to each other (and that's probably the most difficult skill for a beginner to learn imo).

Lots of people who read based only on their intuition think that reading with this system is somehow rigid or overwhelmingly difficult, but it's not, it's actually very fluent when you get gist of it. On the other hand, learning the stuff, Qabalah, astrology and all can be a bit overwhelming at times :D but you get out what you put into it, at least in my experience.

@fractalgranny: Paul Hughes-Barlow is good, but I'd recommend you watching videos by Youtube user Polyphonic Tarot. He uses Thoth deck most of the time and in his videos you can see all the Qabalistic and astrological etc. attributions used in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j73Ob-8ZSTU
 

gregory

Unfortunately, the folks who read the Thoth as it was meant to be read ie using all of the aforementioned attributions etc, don't tend to read on the forum, and I also note they don't tend to assist any of the members who post readings for help even when the reading is with the Thoth deck. I have always been curious about how a reading would look/work when one uses all that there is to learn/know about the Thoth and Thelema. I know some who use it quite often, but they too use it in a more intuitive way, gregory comes to mind, and she is no slouch at reading cards.
Actually I am aware of at least one member who has commented Thothfully and been told that when commenting in YR (and also in UTC, actually) that they should stick to RW as that is what most members mean, and that we have a Thoth subforum for Thothy Things. Which is true, and I have, to be fair, seen a bit of confusion when Thoth references were made to someone who was barely even aware that the deck existed - but which will also mean they won't be commenting !

ETA I also second Prudence on the subject of Arrien. That book cost me $1 (CDN) - and it was overpriced.
 

Barleywine

Unfortunately, the folks who read the Thoth as it was meant to be read ie using all of the aforementioned attributions etc, don't tend to read on the forum, and I also note they don't tend to assist any of the members who post readings for help even when the reading is with the Thoth deck. I have always been curious about how a reading would look/work when one uses all that there is to learn/know about the Thoth and Thelema. I know some who use it quite often, but they too use it in a more intuitive way, gregory comes to mind, and she is no slouch at reading cards.

I've been reading with the Thoth almost exclusively for over 40 years. I've also been a lot more active lately in Your Readings, trying to help beginners with their interpretations (well, I admit I'm also having some fun with it). If I have the deck that the OP used, I lay out the subject cards with that deck and look at them while forming my comments. If I don't have it (and even if I do in some cases) I use the Thoth for this purpose. Especially with the minor arcana, the Thoth usually brings an entirely fresh perspective to the table using astrological, numerological, elemental, qabalistic, visual and descriptive nuances. I don't post my own Thoth spreads there since I don't read much for myself and I don't need help when I do. But you will get a little bit of the Thoth divination perspective almost every time I participate. (On the other hand, I tend to prefer RWS for the CC; not intentionally since I'm not a huge fan ot the RWS, it just worked out that way.)
 

Zephyros

Unfortunately, the folks who read the Thoth as it was meant to be read ie using all of the aforementioned attributions etc, don't tend to read on the forum, and I also note they don't tend to assist any of the members who post readings for help even when the reading is with the Thoth deck.

On the few occasions I have offered readings, my problem was ultimately that those who responded were not well versed in the Thoth, they just wanted a reading. That's fine for them, just that the worth of such a reading as a learning experience for me was limited.

I do think it would be enormously helpful to see more reading threads involving those who use Thoth in its entirety. We could all see how well it works, how clear the answers are to the question at hand and why it is truly necessary to use it in this particular fashion in order to give the best reading possible. The icing on the cake would be that anyone reading the threads would get better educated about this deck and it's system, and how to use it effectively in a reading.

Don't know if I should post this, but since it is a public reading I guess I won't be violating anyone's privacy. I actually did do a reading a while back. Not traditional in the fullest sense, that would mean using the OOTK, but it should answer a few questions, or possibly create new ones.

http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=216896
 

smw

thanks, prudence, yup, this is exactly what i'm looking for. in the meantime, i'm listening to paul hughes-barlow :)

I'm probably being mean and not giving him much of a chance but I couldn't make 5 minutes listening to this guy...waffling...:joke: