Diana
edited
XXI - Le Monde
Fulgour
GREEK "... that Eros, whom some call Phanes ('torch') ~
was hatched from this egg and set the Universe in motion."
Comments by Patrick C. Ryan
was hatched from this egg and set the Universe in motion."
Comments by Patrick C. Ryan
tmgrl2
More reading on Phanes. (Eros?)
http://www.lapismagazine.org/fideler.html
and
http://www.collegiumfabrorum.org/orphic.htm
EEK! This is so interesting...have to print and read at leisure..
terri
http://www.lapismagazine.org/fideler.html
and
http://www.collegiumfabrorum.org/orphic.htm
EEK! This is so interesting...have to print and read at leisure..
terri
Fulgour
Eek 2
PHANES
"Light". Primordial Greek sun god. In Orphism, he was the first god
to emerge from the primeval egg engendered by Kronos. In another
tradition, he was the father of Nyx (night).
religion.mrugala
*
Phanes Protogonos is The All-in-One, the Unity of potential Multiplicity
— from Phanes All proceeds, and to Phanes All returns. Thus, as Difference
emerges from the Sameness of Phanes, this 'Most Beautiful of Intelligibles' is
characterised by Sameness and Difference — as is Eros. And as Proklos
(Theol. Plat. V, 30) says: "Moreover, Sameness and Difference, are in the
extremity of Intelligibles. For whence does Multitude originate, but from
Difference? And whence is the communion of Parts with Wholes, and the
hyparxis of things which are divided in each other derived but from Sameness?"
Scolia on Eros
PHANES
"Light". Primordial Greek sun god. In Orphism, he was the first god
to emerge from the primeval egg engendered by Kronos. In another
tradition, he was the father of Nyx (night).
religion.mrugala
*
Phanes Protogonos is The All-in-One, the Unity of potential Multiplicity
— from Phanes All proceeds, and to Phanes All returns. Thus, as Difference
emerges from the Sameness of Phanes, this 'Most Beautiful of Intelligibles' is
characterised by Sameness and Difference — as is Eros. And as Proklos
(Theol. Plat. V, 30) says: "Moreover, Sameness and Difference, are in the
extremity of Intelligibles. For whence does Multitude originate, but from
Difference? And whence is the communion of Parts with Wholes, and the
hyparxis of things which are divided in each other derived but from Sameness?"
Scolia on Eros
isthmus nekoi
A suggestion on the meaning of Phanes/Kronos
Check out this picture of Phanes: http://www.plotinus.com/eros.htm
Not hermaphroditic but reminiscent of the world card?
a few thoughts which require some divine degrees of separation and some symbolic implications - pls bear w/me:
- Phanes > Pan > The Devil/15
Another hermaphrodite. The repressed/demonized value of Materialism. Here, it can represent both forms of materialism: the current fetishized strain (Capitialism, postmodernism) and the original (actual bodies, the earth etc).
- Phanes > Eros > The Lovers/6
Artificial union of opposites - the marriage. Not quite the hermaphrodite.
- Phanes > Kronos > Saturn (21)
Completed work. Again, emphasis on Matter.
- Phanes > Dionysos (quite an intuitive leap, please bear w/me - I probably made the link due to the Mithraic/Orpheus cult connection. Also, if we are to posit the World figure is a Christ figure, then the connections are clearer.)
Dionysos - Spirit in Matter. Or (and pls forgive the structuralist perspective here) the union of male (spirit) and female (matter - mater - mother). The world may represent not simply the completed work, but the reunification b/w the split in Western discourse between the "ghost" and the "machine". The shift from the Enlightenment/Modern view of matter as containable, predictable and controlable to the understanding that it is truly mysterious - that the current materialist view of cognitive science (in which all of human consciousness is neuronal firings etc) does not necessarily predicate a reductionist, or fatalistic model of consciousness. There is only matter, because ultimately, spirit and matter are one and the same, Jung's psychoid. etc etc.
Check out this picture of Phanes: http://www.plotinus.com/eros.htm
Not hermaphroditic but reminiscent of the world card?
a few thoughts which require some divine degrees of separation and some symbolic implications - pls bear w/me:
- Phanes > Pan > The Devil/15
Another hermaphrodite. The repressed/demonized value of Materialism. Here, it can represent both forms of materialism: the current fetishized strain (Capitialism, postmodernism) and the original (actual bodies, the earth etc).
- Phanes > Eros > The Lovers/6
Artificial union of opposites - the marriage. Not quite the hermaphrodite.
- Phanes > Kronos > Saturn (21)
Completed work. Again, emphasis on Matter.
- Phanes > Dionysos (quite an intuitive leap, please bear w/me - I probably made the link due to the Mithraic/Orpheus cult connection. Also, if we are to posit the World figure is a Christ figure, then the connections are clearer.)
Dionysos - Spirit in Matter. Or (and pls forgive the structuralist perspective here) the union of male (spirit) and female (matter - mater - mother). The world may represent not simply the completed work, but the reunification b/w the split in Western discourse between the "ghost" and the "machine". The shift from the Enlightenment/Modern view of matter as containable, predictable and controlable to the understanding that it is truly mysterious - that the current materialist view of cognitive science (in which all of human consciousness is neuronal firings etc) does not necessarily predicate a reductionist, or fatalistic model of consciousness. There is only matter, because ultimately, spirit and matter are one and the same, Jung's psychoid. etc etc.
Ross G Caldwell
isthmus nekoi said:
That's my philosophy, in a nutshell. I'm proud to say I came to it myself. I didn't know Jung had a similar conception.
The contrary absolute could also be asserted, i.e. everything is spirit.
Your post was nicely put isthmus nekoi. And well-related to the TdM scheme.
tmgrl2
isthmus nekoi said:
Excellent post isthmus...
Re your above statement....made me think of the teaching of opposites (I am a speech/language pathologist) in school.
My students are always surprised when they light goes on that "opposites" as defined in pairs...are really only what we would call one "distinctive feature" away from the other in the semantic domain. Hence, male-female, while we call them opposites are actually completely covered by the same definition of critical features in all but one factor:
sex
So opposites are ALMOST completely alike....except of this single critical feature.
I, too, see matter = spirit.
terri
firemaiden
Diana said:
You know what's amazing, Diana!! It was precisely this link of the Orphic Egg to the World Card (well it was the Universe card in the Thoth deck) that got me interested in tarot in the first place.
Crowley did not mention Phanes [did he??? looking for Book of Thoth online, its been moved...heeeelp] - but his Universe card looks much like Dark Electric's wonderful link. He was focussed on the (possibly bogus) - "Pelasgian creation myth" brought to us by Robert Graves - Eurynome - goddess of the sea, and Ophion - the snake) (myth thought to pre-date the Orphic creation myth) [or else that was simply Hajo Banzhaf's observation.....argh... where is that Book of Thoth!?]
Phanes, light... a new day... birth of a new day... a new Jerusalem... its all coming together!
Sophie
isthmus nekoi said:
I'm just lurking on this forum, but I have to say my mind slottled right into place with that one. I had a look at Le Monde (l'amande, amanda, la bien-aimée), after reading these words. Oh YES! YES! YES! (spirit in matter, folks). But what happens in the etc.? Don't leave me hanging.
jmd
The Phanes Cosmocrator or Phanes Protogonos is the image to which I earlier refered to as 'Mythras' - though it seems, from what has so far been posted, perhaps incorrectly... and yet the very image has in various Mythraic papers been refered to as belonging to that important very religious movement.
For the sake of having it hereon too, I attach a copy (though of course the previously given links show the same).
Of all early images, this to me is not only one of the most striking, but one that appears to have had an impact on the very development of later iconographic stonework on even Cathedrals of mediæval times, and indeed even in the fusing of representations of Christ in Majesty by the Mythraic influence on the development of early Christianity.
Of incredible detail is the precision of the orientation of the zodiac: the central figure stands erect between precisely the equinoctial points, with the solsticial ones depicted at their furthest left and right of the figure. On this representation alone, one would conclude that the figure would originally have been facing due East, with Cancer to the left, and Capricorn to the right - in some ways representing the line of the equator, yet also any latitudinal point when equinoctial.
With regards to the union of opposites, the sexual union is to be used as a metaphor - and I realise that this is realised. The reason I mention it, however, is simply that the union is, to my mind, to be taken as full, as fusion, and hence as hermaphrodic.
In similar form, gold and silver form what we long ago called electrum, and which the Ancient Egyptians already 'alchemically' fused: the union of Gold and Silver formed a new substance via the forge or athanor that yielded the metal.
The opposites may be defined, perhaps, by their similarity, except for the detail - but the marriage between makes a new whole, not an artificial and partial joining.
This aspect of the Spiritual within Matter, of matter transfigured to the spirit, I too am personally in agreement with - and what wonderful posts to read...
..good to see that this and X the Wheel of Fortunæ have been raised from the depths of time
For the sake of having it hereon too, I attach a copy (though of course the previously given links show the same).
Of all early images, this to me is not only one of the most striking, but one that appears to have had an impact on the very development of later iconographic stonework on even Cathedrals of mediæval times, and indeed even in the fusing of representations of Christ in Majesty by the Mythraic influence on the development of early Christianity.
Of incredible detail is the precision of the orientation of the zodiac: the central figure stands erect between precisely the equinoctial points, with the solsticial ones depicted at their furthest left and right of the figure. On this representation alone, one would conclude that the figure would originally have been facing due East, with Cancer to the left, and Capricorn to the right - in some ways representing the line of the equator, yet also any latitudinal point when equinoctial.
With regards to the union of opposites, the sexual union is to be used as a metaphor - and I realise that this is realised. The reason I mention it, however, is simply that the union is, to my mind, to be taken as full, as fusion, and hence as hermaphrodic.
In similar form, gold and silver form what we long ago called electrum, and which the Ancient Egyptians already 'alchemically' fused: the union of Gold and Silver formed a new substance via the forge or athanor that yielded the metal.
The opposites may be defined, perhaps, by their similarity, except for the detail - but the marriage between makes a new whole, not an artificial and partial joining.
This aspect of the Spiritual within Matter, of matter transfigured to the spirit, I too am personally in agreement with - and what wonderful posts to read...
..good to see that this and X the Wheel of Fortunæ have been raised from the depths of time
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