RWS copyright expiring??

I noticed this comment in another thread, and my immediate reaction was, what about other "close" decks that got in before copyright was enforced? I'm thinking mainly of the Hoi Polloi; can we hope for a reissue of that one when the time comes? Hope hope??

I'm not sure what you mean by "got in," but any changes made constitute a new deck. The Hoi Polloi's copyright won't run out when the RWS's will.

Has the Hoi Polloi become HTF? It doesn't seem like so long ago that I saw one go for very little on eBay but I didn't need a second. (My sense of time is a little iffy...)

Is Hoi Polloi even an official name?

Diana

Waite-Smith has been in the public domain for some time now, no matter what U.S. Games wants you to think.

Freder said:

Waite-Smith has been in the public domain for some time now, no matter what U.S. Games wants you to think.

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Is that by your calculations or do you have access to information that we don't?

Regarding the Hoi Polloi - it came out in 1970. Add 70 years onto that and it's still quite a wait.

Nothing else in the artworld created in 1909 must still be within copyright. Only the RWS!

Well, I thought that the Hoi Polloi (and no, I don't think that was the official name; there's an old thread somewhere) went out of print because it violated the copyright of the RWS, or came too close, or something. If I'm wrong, please set me straight. I was just hoping that the Hoi Polloi would get back into print if the RWS didn't conflict any more. Maybe it was a toss-off comment someone made speculating why the H-P had gone out of print. I don't know.

Without actually moving to find a box here, it looks like some version of Reiss Publishing put out Hoi Polloi and perhaps they did use that name. I am not sure why I thought someone had just named it that.

The thread I found sounds like maybe not all the versions were alike. I know I have a brown game box and a faux parchment set of instructions but I don't think there was a box for the cards. As I recall, the eBay set I saw was something like it. I remember looking at it and thinking, "Isn't that a Hoi Polloi?" checking, then being surprised that no one jumped on it.

Diana

In America, everything published before 1923 is in the public domain. Starting in 2019, works published in 1923 fall into public domain, and every year after that the line moves forward. In 2020, 1924 goes into public domain; in 2021, 1925 becomes PD, and so on.

That said, LOTS of things published after 1923 are actually in public domain, because reasons. You have to do your research on everything. George Romero's original abomination NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD is in public domain because of a negligent producer. That's why you see cheap DVDs of the godawful thing all over the place, from cheap DVD publishers. That's why it had to be remade. Not that it staunched the flow of disgusting and witless ghoul movies and TV shows.

The law is slightly different in Europe, but RWS is still in public domain by any standard.

The only way US Games or anyone else can lay claim to a copyright on them is by modifying the designs in some way. Then -- if you copy their modified design, you are indeed in violation of the copyright. The same way THEY would be in copyright violation if you took Miss Pamela's original line-art and recolored it, and then they published your colorings without your permission.

But -- why would anyone do that? Miss Pamela did a beautiful job coloring her own drawings. The world doesn't need a recolored PCS or any other kind of PCS knockoff any more than it needs more ghoul movies. It's your responsibility as a creative person to create something new.

If that's so why hasn't someone yet made a Pam-A crackle back or Rose+Lily reproduction? Those are the oldest surviving RWS Tarot decks, by all accounts both the front and back art should be in the public domain, yet nobody has made them.

The crackle back is not created by US Games so it can be used. The US Games deck that uses Rose+Lily back is the Original Rider Waite which we now know to be Pam-C not A.

The Smith-Waite Centennial is also a recoloured Pam-A with a dark tint not found on any other original, and it has a US Games back.

People would clamour for the oldest repros, so if they're public, why haven't they been made?

FaintlyMacabre said:

Without actually moving to find a box here, it looks like some version of Reiss Publishing put out Hoi Polloi and perhaps they did use that name. I am not sure why I thought someone had just named it that.

The thread I found sounds like maybe not all the versions were alike. I know I have a brown game box and a faux parchment set of instructions but I don't think there was a box for the cards. As I recall, the eBay set I saw was something like it. I remember looking at it and thinking, "Isn't that a Hoi Polloi?" checking, then being surprised that no one jumped on it.

Diana

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My Hoi Polloi says "The Tarot" on the front of the box, Reiss publishing copyright on the back of the box and Hoi Polloi copyright on the parchment booklet.