Sun VS 9 of cups and ED

Xrysalida

I ws wondering about this card combination and the way the elemental dignities affect,
Both of the cards are wishing cards and they give me the feeling of being satisfied and having what you wanted, that feeling of easy happiness and lightness.

The Sun brings clarity in any situation that it comes, it might not be always about getting what you wish but it sure clears the way to there.

9 of cups brings fullfilment on the emotional realm, you are open and want give to the others your happiness and joy, good moments are in the picture but again even if is not what you wanted, there ll be a satisfied closure.

What do you do them together in a reading when you have Water/Sun/9 of cups?

The Sun here gets weak so it seems that action in this spread is under the carpet of emotions, I am tryeing to figure if the joy on these two cards is suppressed, because the Sun gets weak, but then again there is the 9 of cups who is similar to the Sun and has a strong role in the spread.
Then the Sun is 19 and the 9oC, so could it be that the emotions are still in the process of completing their cycle but still action is not the air?
and at the end, the person who asks the question will she/he find the answer or result that will satisfied them and bring them joy?

WHat do you think? any ideas around this?

Scibility

Hi Xrysalida,
I think in book T Mcgregor Mathews explains that if the two flanking cards are the same, then their effect is very strong (for better or worse). So if the sun card is flanked by two water cards, then the effect of the two water cards is very strong.

But I think if the elements were contrary to each other it has a neutralizing or cancelling effect, and so the ill-dignified card would stand alone.

My understanding is that it really depends on the "qualities" of the cards that are flanking. So the "ill-dignified" card is sometimes modified in a good way. I Hope that helps somehow. I don't always use elemental dignities, but they can be so helpful in readings. Best of luck.

Xrysalida

Scibility said:
Hi Xrysalida,
I think in book T Mcgregor Mathews explains that if the two flanking cards are the same, then their effect is very strong (for better or worse). So if the sun card is flanked by two water cards, then the effect of the two water cards is very strong.

But I think if the elements were contrary to each other it has a neutralizing or cancelling effect, and so the ill-dignified card would stand alone.

My understanding is that it really depends on the "qualities" of the cards that are flanking. So the "ill-dignified" card is sometimes modified in a good way. I Hope that helps somehow. I don't always use elemental dignities, but they can be so helpful in readings. Best of luck.

Hi Scibility!

I follow this guide for the moment: http://tarotelements.com/4039/how-y...ngs-using-the-elemental-dignities-dictionary/
which is the Golden Dawn's system in a more simple explanation I think,
base on this system what is important is the central card "for good or evil", so yes indeed the water cards are strong but as they effect the central ill then the central would loose it's meaning?

as you say it say it above makes me wonder, even if the the water cards support each how they effect the fire card?

Xrysalida

I think I m missing something with the ED and the cards themselves, is like when you use them the cards meaning don't play such an important role.

Scibility

HI

thanks for sharing that link, it is really easy to follow their explanations.
I can't find my book right now, but take a look at HERE. It has two examples of how the "ill dignified" card could potentially be modified in a good way.

I think if the flanking cards have overall helpful energy,and they are in an upright position, it could suggest a sort of exuberance rather than an immersion in unhealthy emotions.

I think Rodney (moderator) did a study group on ED's last year, he always has great insight in his posts. Maybe he'll jump in and share his thoughts too. Have a great day!

Xrysalida

Scibility said:
HI
thanks for sharing that link, it is really easy to follow their explanations.
I can't find my book right now, but take a look at HERE. It has two examples of how the "ill dignified" card could potentially be modified in a good way.

I think if the flanking cards have overall helpful energy,and they are in an upright position, it could suggest a sort of exuberance rather than an immersion in unhealthy emotions.

I think Rodney (moderator) did a study group on ED's last year, he always has great insight in his posts. Maybe he'll jump in and share his thoughts too. Have a great day!

Τhank for the link it does explani them in a simple form also and I see what you mean, the examples are very clear for the ill-dignified card, I still wonder if one of the 2 flanking cards is supporting and the other not then what you get here?

Antwyay I do hope for Rodney to jump into discussion

thank you for sharing, have a great day too!!

rwcarter

I'm here, I'm here. Busy day.

What the W/Sun/9C combo makes me think of is sunshine reflecting down onto a body of water. From above the water, you get a reflection that's likely fuzzy. From below the water you get a clearer or more cloudy view of what's above the water depending on how far below the surface you are.

Taking that as the basis of the elemental interpretation and looking at the Sun as being more about clarity of vision than happiness, you have the Sun's clarity being dimmed by the high hopes/desire for a wish to come true/smugness/self-satisfaction of the 9C and whatever the other Water card is. So the Sun doesn't have a negative interpretation but it does have a weaker interpretation. The Sun could still be interpreted as happiness or success which is still clouded by the flanking Water cards.

Haven't read any of the other interpretations, so don't know if I'm adding anything new to the discussion.

Rodney

Xrysalida

rwcarter said:
I'm here, I'm here.

My Hero!

rwcarter said:
What the W/Sun/9C combo makes me think of is sunshine reflecting down onto a body of water. From above the water, you get a reflection that's likely fuzzy. From below the water you get a clearer or more cloudy view of what's above the water depending on how far below the surface you are.

Taking that as the basis of the elemental interpretation and looking at the Sun as being more about clarity of vision than happiness

(in general the Sun for me comes for clarity than happiness)
Would lke to ask though, the fact that you see the SUn as clarity and not happiness is because the water is weakened the fire?

rwcarter said:
you have the Sun's clarity being dimmed by the high hopes/desire for a wish to come true/smugness/self-satisfaction of the 9C and whatever the other Water card is. So the Sun doesn't have a negative interpretation but it does have a weaker interpretation. The Sun could still be interpreted as happiness or success which is still clouded by the flanking Water cards.

Haven't read any of the other interpretations, so don't know if I'm adding anything new to the discussion.

Rodney

so, when would the SUn be Ill for example?
if the flanking cards where not supporting the SUn like let's say if it was the Moon or 4 of cups, cards taht denote confusion?

thanks for jumping in

rwcarter

Xrysalida said:
(in general the Sun for me comes for clarity than happiness)
Would lke to ask though, the fact that you see the SUn as clarity and not happiness is because the water is weakened the fire?

It's not that I never see the Sun as happiness. It's just that sunlight through water made me think of clarity or the lack thereof. But I even said that happiness or success as interpretations for the Sun would still allow the interpretations I gave.

Xrysalida said:
so, when would the SUn be Ill for example?
if the flanking cards where not supporting the SUn like let's say if it was the Moon or 4 of cups, cards taht denote confusion?

Remember, ill-dignified just means weakened, which could mean anything from not quite as strong to neutralized. So as a Fire card, the Sun is ill-dignified in the presence of a Water card. Moonlight is nothing more than reflected sunlight, so that pairing speaks to me of obtuseness - being unable or unwilling to see the truth of a situation, instead wallowing in one's alternate reality.

With the 4 Cups, it's a more active refusal to see the truth/happiness/success of the Sun which then becomes represented by the ignored 4th cup.

Xrysalida said:
thanks for jumping in

Any time.

Rodney

Xrysalida

rwcarter said:
It's not that I never see the Sun as happiness. It's just that sunlight through water made me think of clarity or the lack thereof. But I even said that happiness or success as interpretations for the Sun would still allow the interpretations I gave.

I understand now, thank you for clarifying it.

rwcarter said:
Remember, ill-dignified just means weakened, which could mean anything from not quite as strong to neutralized. So as a Fire card, the Sun is ill-dignified in the presence of a Water card. Moonlight is nothing more than reflected sunlight, so that pairing speaks to me of obtuseness - being unable or unwilling to see the truth of a situation, instead wallowing in one's alternate reality.

With the 4 Cups, it's a more active refusal to see the truth/happiness/success of the Sun which then becomes represented by the ignored 4th cup.

Any time.

Rodney

I feel much better thinking that Ill-dign is only weakened

for me reversed is like exactlly the oppositte, or the same but toooooooo much of it!

I think I understand, I feel that I need soo much time with ED's llike,, what you said there about the Moon, that one might be unwilling to see the others alternate rality, this is an interpretation I wouldn't see but it makes so much sense.

I have to organize my questions and come and bomb you on your ED thread ")