five of pentacles

star-lover

kwaw said:
Well most of your pop bookshelf journalists do agree. Unfortunately that is because they merely replicate each other and copy each others errors.

Kwaw


ok you have a point
 

kwaw

star-lover said:
i wasnt mocking or judging
i just questioned ok???

Cause:) [Sorry if come over as in anyway hostile; it is not meant as such. I know my writing style can come over as dogged and bullish at times, it is just my way of writing, I am not meaning to be pugnasious or hostile]. You looked at the image kilts-knave has linked too? That shows the order of decans GD used.

Kwaw
 

star-lover

kwaw said:
Cause:) [Sorry if come over as in anyway hostile; it is not meant as such. I know my writing style can come over as dogged and bullish at times, it is just my way of writing, I am not meaning to be pugnasious or hostile]. You looked at the image kilts-knave has linked too? That shows the order of decans GD used.

Kwaw

no i didnt see what kk had imaged
its ok
 

firecatpickles

Try this one -it's a jpeg...
 

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isthmus nekoi

gilded goat said:
i get a bit confused with mixing astology with tarot but i presume theres a reason for it?
again thanks for the help
G

It's funny b/c I blogged about this recently... The benefits to scaffolding one system on top of another or learning two systems together is that by relating concepts, by creating connections, you make it easier for yourself to store and retrieve information. Esp if you learned one system in depth first. Then learning similar concepts in the second one is much faster. You also add complexity and depth to each system by gaining a new perspective on each one. This is a really great reason to me, for seeking out relations b/w systems.

The downside happens when you only learn both systems superficially. One may have the tendency to contort another system to FIT the one you know better (self serving bias). Sometimes it's like forcing a circle peg into a square hole lol. So you also may over look important idiosyncracies in a system by focusing on generalities and connections b/w systems which is not so good...

I don't think however, connecting systems has to be an attempt to find one universal system (although some certainly try for it). For me, it's more about finding different ways to describe EXPERIENCE and being able to share and communicate about experiences. Learning another system is like picking up another language - you've got more tools to communicate with. And you know, like language there are always things you can't translate easily, if at all... So sometimes tarot/astro associations seem so obvious, other times, not.

Experience is a complicated thing and our signifiers, our words and our systems will never adequately capture experience. That's why I think it's more important to FEEL the 5 of pents, to experience the 5 of pents... and if knowing what Mercury in Taurus FEELS like deepens your understanding of the card, great!

[edit] p.s. Similia, thanks for the explanation, I often wondered about the choice of planets!
 

Rusty Neon

When it comes to astrological interpretations of the GD/RWS pips, I like to go to "rationalizations" in Robert Wang's book _The Qabalistic Tarot_. In the Golden Dawn, the Qabalistic correspondences associated with the card number sometimes throw a dent, positive or negative (as the case may be), into the plain planet-sign interpretation.

"This is Geburah [being the Sephira associated with Five] in Assiah [of the four Qabalistic worlds, this one, Assiah, is the Material World and is the Qabalistic world assigned to Pentacles], the influence of Geburah in the Material World. Here a distinction should be understood between material trouble and the ruin of all things implied by the Ten of Swords. The natural structure brought into Taurus by the energies of Mercury is thrown off by Geburah's influence at a higher level."

(I infer from this that Geburah, as a Qabalistic influence, is a "higher" influence than the astrological because we're in the Pentacles suit which represents the Material World.)
 

star-lover

kilts_knave said:
Try this one -it's a jpeg...
yup, I see it
ok i get it now

i feel such an idiot this morning regarding all this - you all obviously know your stuff very well and it went bit over my head - kwaw you did your best to explain it all very welll to me - thank you - i just wasn't getting it last night


so just a quick question here not wanting to really digress off the topic
so i guess if the chaldean system based on planetary hours is the correct/more reliable one, then does that mean that those decan rulerships can be taken for one's sun sign, ie my 1st decan libra sun would be coloured by the Moon and not Venus?
 

firecatpickles

star-lover said:
ok i get it now
If you are working on your own intuitive system, please do not throw the baby out with the bathwater --stay with it. One mustn't accept other's interps as the Gospel! (forgive me for mixing metaphors...)

KK
:THANG
 

kwaw

star-lover said:
so i guess if the chaldean system based on planetary hours is the correct/more reliable one,

Hi star lover

Don't get me wrong I am not saying the chaldean is necessarily more correct/ more reliable than the elemental [eg, aries of aries, leo of aries, sag of aries] one. The latter as you have found is very common in modern western astrology and has a long history in indian astrology; I think it was known in the west but the chaldean was the most commonly used in western traditional astrology, and it is that used in GD influenced decks.

I am sure I have seen at least one deck which uses the decan rulerships you are familiar with - but can't remember which one, someone I think like cc zain, or another esoteric order influenced one. Anyone else here know?

ps. see what I mean from kilts-knave image about the days of the week? The first decan of aries is mars [tuesay], first of taurus mercury [wednesday]. When you get to the first decan of the last sign pisces [saturn - saturday] you 'jump' to the second decan of aries sun-sunday, second decan of taurus monday etc.

Kwaw
 

star-lover

hi kk

thanks i take your point - i just got muddled about the decanates rulerships yesterday - i would have to do some serious research/study to start to grasp some of the history/traiditoins of all the various astrology systems and see what is what

i wouldnt say i'm working with any system intuitively, but on 2nd thoughts maybe i am - you reminded me that when trying to understand tarot cards i find some coorelations are triggered for me which are not traditional,for instance, the tower to me in its positive and negative aspects is so uranus -so many interpretations of what uranus is seem to fit so well for that card - when i think of mars as is assigned to the tower i just dont see it - so yes i would say i have my own personal way of exploring the cards with the help of astrology - it seems to work for me so i guess its fine to do that