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Babalon Jones's Avatar
Babalon Jones  Babalon Jones is offline
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Babalon Jones 

besides my reply to Laura above in my previous post, I also wanted to address these two posts:

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwcarter View Post
I do love the Tarot M and hope that you finish it (preferably as 78 cards, but that's me). I like the Hierophant. You have a knack for taking the traditional imagery, exploding it and rearranging the elements into something new, different and unique. I think the Hierophant flows well with the deck to date.

My only quibble so far is the Empress. I love the image, and the art style is similar to the other cards in the deck. But there's something about the image that I can't put my finger on (and therefore can't describe) that makes it seem like a card from a different deck. Maybe it's not as otherworldly as the other cards so far? Maybe the imagery hasn't been exploded as much as the other cards you've shown and arranged into something different so it seems like most any other Empress card.

I hope you finish this deck (and sooner rather than later), but I'll support whatever decision you make.

Rodney
I have been thinking a lot about the Empress, as I noticed that she wasn't well received for some reason (though a few people liked her a lot, so who knows?)

One thing that crossed my mind (and please don't think I am insinuating anything said by you or anyone in particular) is I did wonder if since I am assuming anyway that there is a majority of people of European origin here if it was subconsciously harder for people to identify with her very African nature. I mean this not as a racist thing, but I have read that people tend to portray in art people who look most like themselves, and people respond best to idealized versions of themselves in art. Do you know what I mean? But it is an intension to represent lots of types in this deck, so I wanted her to represent the African continent, the mother of all things, a mitochondrial Eve if you will.

But that said, it may be that there is just something wrong with the art. When you say though that "Maybe it's not as otherworldly as the other cards so far? Maybe the imagery hasn't been exploded as much as the other cards you've shown and arranged into something different so it seems like most any other Empress card." I have to disagree as I thought that the concept of having the door to her heart open and revealing the heart chambers as a hive filled with honey comb, with bees flying out towards the viewer in a Fibonacci spiral, as being quite otherworldly and also very unique and unlike any Empress I've ever seen. But perhaps it was too ambitious of a concept, it certainly was hard to execute it properly. Which is why she is larger than the Emperor as Teheuti noted below. It was because otherwise her heart would have been too small to depict clearly, and even with the zoomed view of the door I'm not sure I effectively communicated it. As I said, it was a difficult thing to portray artistically. It was one of those things you see in your mind but then try to put down on a 2-D piece of paper and go, huh, how do I actually do this?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Teheuti View Post
I love your art and your use of symbolism, and this deck looks like it will be as great or greater than your last one. I really like the Hierophant a lot.

But, I have to comment on the Emperor and the Empress. One of my pet peeves is decks where these two don't look like they have anything to do with each other, and I'm afraid that's the feeling I get here. There's not anything specifically wrong with the two cards, but at the least I think that the figures on the two cards should be of approximately the same size and I prefer it when I can put them next to each other and feel like I have a pair. If he was larger and looking toward her it might help or _____? - something!

Regarding your other question: Why not do one card in oils and see what happens?
Yes, it bothered me too that there was a size difference, but in my explanation above it mentions why she had to be larger. And, in order to fit everything I wanted in his card he had to be the size he is. But they actually conceptually have a lot to do with each other, subject-matter wise at least. She has the wild heart-hive of bees, he has the bee-skep and smoker. And while they don't match visually, she being African and he being Celtic among other things, I still hoped they worked somewhat due to the content. The tradition of having the Emperor & Empress be of different races seems to be not unusual so that I thought was a good thing. I also included some reds and yellows in her design as a nod to her connection with him, and it was only for that reason as you may notice that in every card for the most part I am sticking to the color scales.

So maybe someday I will redo one or both of them, but to be honest, knowing the way I am, I might not as though I wished they matched more, I actually like them well enough and there are so many more cards to do!

So thank you everyone I do appreciate your taking the time to comment. If nothing else it helps inform the future cards whether or not I ever redo any of these.

I really do want to finish this deck, but I also want to work in oils. So I think I will do a card in oils and see what happens. Maybe i'll fall in love with working with them and be inspired, or maybe not. My worry is that by doing more than one deck at once, neither would ever get finished as it takes so much time. I wish I didn't have to have a full time job, lol, I'd just do this all day every day!
Top   #81
rwcarter's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babalon Jones View Post
One thing that crossed my mind (and please don't think I am insinuating anything said by you or anyone in particular) is I did wonder if since I am assuming anyway that there is a majority of people of European origin here if it was subconsciously harder for people to identify with her very African nature. I mean this not as a racist thing, but I have read that people tend to portray in art people who look most like themselves, and people respond best to idealized versions of themselves in art. Do you know what I mean? But it is an intension to represent lots of types in this deck, so I wanted her to represent the African continent, the mother of all things, a mitochondrial Eve if you will.
I'm African-American, so that's not my issue with her. I love that she's of African descent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babalon Jones View Post
But that said, it may be that there is just something wrong with the art. When you say though that "Maybe it's not as otherworldly as the other cards so far? Maybe the imagery hasn't been exploded as much as the other cards you've shown and arranged into something different so it seems like most any other Empress card." I have to disagree as I thought that the concept of having the door to her heart open and revealing the heart chambers as a hive filled with honey comb, with bees flying out towards the viewer in a Fibonacci spiral, as being quite otherworldly and also very unique and unlike any Empress I've ever seen. But perhaps it was too ambitious of a concept, it certainly was hard to execute it properly. Which is why she is larger than the Emperor as Teheuti noted below. It was because otherwise her heart would have been too small to depict clearly, and even with the zoomed view of the door I'm not sure I effectively communicated it. As I said, it was a difficult thing to portray artistically. It was one of those things you see in your mind but then try to put down on a 2-D piece of paper and go, huh, how do I actually do this?
I didn't actually catch the thing with the heart chamber, so thanks for the explanation. I thought that was a shield she was carrying. I didn't make the connection that you were showing a zoomed view of her heart chamber as the Ankh symbol that's on the door of the exploded view isn't there on her body.

Maybe my issue with her is that she's rather plain (maybe even boring?) compared to the cards seen so far - tattooed and shirtless Fool in a jester's cap, galactic DJ (Magician), lush and sensuous Priestess, Viking (?) Emperor and Tibetan monk Hierophant. Then there's the Empress who doesn't bring any of the excitement/uniqueness/difference that the other cards bring in terms of who is depicted as opposed to how they're depicted if that makes any sense.

Rodney
Top   #82
Babalon Jones's Avatar
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Babalon Jones 

Damn, if you thought she was carrying a shield, well I guess my artistic skills really did fail me! Sigh, it was an ambitious idea, maybe too out there I guess. Can you tell what it is now that you know, or is it hopeless? Maybe I need to add the symbol to the door on her body too. (It is actually the glyph for Venus, as she rules/represents Venus)

If I were to redo her I guess I'd have to somehow make her more interesting or modern. Not sure how, but I will think on it.
Top   #83
Laura Borealis's Avatar
Laura Borealis  Laura Borealis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babalon Jones View Post
Hi Laura!

He actually isn't a white guy (I think), but I guess my artistic skills didn't work out so well. His agedness, white hair and relatively light skin I guess look pretty white.

My "model" was based Khordong Chhimed Rigdzin Rinpoche (try saying or spelling that 3 times fast, lol!)

You can read about him here and see a picture of him too:
http://www.khordong.de/Engl/Rinpoche...biography.html and also here:

http://www.khordong-india.org/lineag...chhimedrigdzin

The monastery/lineage is in Tibet, and he was born there so without knowing his geneology I assumed he was Tibetan.
Hi Babylon Thanks for answering. Now that I compare with a photo of your model (http://www.khordong-india.org/images/rinpoche-lung.jpg) I can see it better. I still think a slightly darker/warmer skin color would make him look less white. But that's me.

I do really like this Hierophant. I just noticed the suggestion of a giant keyhole behind him. I missed that last night. Nice touch.

For the record, I think your Empress and Emperor complement each other well. And I love that your Empress is strong. Who says the Empress has to be pregnant, nurturing, and passive? I get a fierce mother protecting her children feel out of your depiction.
Top   #84
Babalon Jones's Avatar
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Thanks Laura! Maybe I will send him back to the studio for a spray tan, lol! Easy enough to put a warmer glaze on his skin.
Top   #85
Laura Borealis's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babalon Jones View Post
Damn, if you thought she was carrying a shield, well I guess my artistic skills really did fail me! Sigh, it was an ambitious idea, maybe too out there I guess. Can you tell what it is now that you know, or is it hopeless? Maybe I need to add the symbol to the door on her body too. (It is actually the glyph for Venus, as she rules/represents Venus)

If I were to redo her I guess I'd have to somehow make her more interesting or modern. Not sure how, but I will think on it.
I didn't see a shield, even before you explained. I saw the heart/beehive in the Fibonacci spiral with the bees circling out. I didn't understand it as an exploded diagram, per se, but I did see the similar hearts on the Priestess (pomegranate seeds?) and thought there was a link there. I think I'd have gotten to the exploded diagram idea eventually. I'd hate to see you re-do it, I love the concept.
Top   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babalon Jones View Post
Damn, if you thought she was carrying a shield, well I guess my artistic skills really did fail me! Sigh, it was an ambitious idea, maybe too out there I guess. Can you tell what it is now that you know, or is it hopeless? Maybe I need to add the symbol to the door on her body too. (It is actually the glyph for Venus, as she rules/represents Venus)

If I were to redo her I guess I'd have to somehow make her more interesting or modern. Not sure how, but I will think on it.
The Empress often has a shield somewhere near her and often the Venus glyph is on it. That's why I immediately went to shield and not to exploded view of heart. (My first thought was probably something akin to wearing one's heart on one's sleeve, but in this case it's a shield.) But once you explained it, I did get it and saw the Fibonacci sequence of the bees' flight.

Trust me when I tell you that my quibble with the Empress isn't enough to stop me from buying the deck when it's complete!

Rodney
Top   #87
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I adore the Empress-as-mitochondrian-Eve idea. Tweak her if you need to, but please don't scrap! She's wonderful!
Top   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babalon Jones View Post

The reason I ask is I have a dilemma. I want to finish this deck, at least as a majors only but ideally as all 78. I'm questioning if this is what anyone besides me wants. This is a project *I* want to do, but if no one else is interested, then while I still may do it I want to know who I am creating it for, just me or anyone else. My time in this life is short.
I so WANT you to finish this. 78 cards would be incredible! I do LOVE your work and am enamored of the Rosetta. I can't offer any artistic comments or criticisms because I'm not an artist and I see no flaws. Every time you post a new card I think "wow, that's just beautiful". I truly hope you decide to continue - I will be the first in line to purchase a deck.
Top   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babalon Jones View Post
Damn, if you thought she was carrying a shield, well I guess my artistic skills really did fail me! Sigh, it was an ambitious idea, maybe too out there I guess. Can you tell what it is now that you know, or is it hopeless? Maybe I need to add the symbol to the door on her body too. (It is actually the glyph for Venus, as she rules/represents Venus)

If I were to redo her I guess I'd have to somehow make her more interesting or modern. Not sure how, but I will think on it.
I did not see any shield, but a heart. But I love your art and every time you put up a new card, I just spend a lot of time admiring it and looking at the details. And I founded the heart-idea very very original.

The comment I had on her was that I find her quite angry-looking, too severe, too masculine, and not so serene and content.
Top   #90




 


 


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