Convince me or discourage me....

jumptothemoonyea

Hello bodhran,

There is no way you can force your Spirit to resonate with something it is not. But you can study many traditions and learn from them.

Thoth is VERY powerful deck. Not a wishy-washy connections. Sharp and strong. It requires a certain degree of inner toughness to let it's beauty take you to the journey.

:love:
 

Scion

Hard Sell

Hey Bodhran,

I'll jump in on the pro-side. A couple things to think about:

I'm a HUGE fan of this deck, but well aware that the (self-created) unsettling aura around Crowley puts many people off this deck from the get-go. Which was exactly his intention, natch. :D Crowley's life was something like the Sufi "Way of Blame" which seeks to disguise its good works in a veneer of offense. As the Devil says in Goethe's Faust: "I am that force in the Universe forever striving towards Evil, forever accomplishing Good." That said, Mr. Crowley is an extremely important, intelligent figure in the History of Western Magic. Like the Waite/Smith deck, the Thoth is something that was built with sweat, blood, and lightning over a period of years. No namby-pamby cobbled together artdeck here. Even if you don't agree with Crowley's thought or Harris' images, in the process of disagreeing with them you will learn a colossal amount about practically every thread of the Western esoteric traditions (and a sprinkle of East as well :)). The Book of Thoth is 5000 times more readable, informative and engaging than the purposefully murky ramblings of Waite's Key to the Tarot. So I'd say buy it for the educational value and the richness of the study opportunity.

The Thoth is also one of the most detailed decks in terms of attributions and structure. It can take weeks to tease all of the meaning out of a single card. The unbelievable devotion, energy, and scholarship that went into crafting its structure are matched only by the rich beautiful paintings by adept Frieda Harris. You could buy the deck to deepen your appreciation both of the artwork (which can seem challenging at first glance, like the Marseille, frankly :D) and the years of elaborate interconnected magick-work that made Crowley so certain he knew how to (re)create a Tarot for the new Aeon. It's a terrific entry point for examination of astrology, mythology, alchemy, ceremonial magic, angels, Gematria, and especially Qabalah (which deserves a paragraph of its own).

Want to deepen your knowledge of Qabala? The Minors of this deck are one of the most robust ways to experience the Qabala as a narrative in process. If you've ever been curious about the actual source of the meanings people bandy about, the Thoth represents an opportunity to take hold of the tradition in a vigorous way that's less-openly afforded by the RWS. Want to do some Tree of Life climbing? As wonderful as this deck is for divination, it's designed almost entirely as a meditative and magical tool to assist/challenge the seeker of Gnosis. Even if you don't believe in the association between Qabala and Tarot, 90% of the deck creators in the world do, so you'd be adding to your practical store of knowledge about differing systems.

You can also buy it because it's cheap! The Thoth deck is so popular and such a classic that different editions are available online for a tenth of their initial price. You can often find copies on eBay for $3. So if you're at all curious, it's extremely easy to satisfy that curiosity. In fact there are other decks inspired by the Thoth that are equally available for LOW-LOW-LOW prices, so if Lady Harris' paintings are too intense/weird, there are options. !!! ;) But wait there's MORE!!

If you're a deck creator, you should purchase the Thoth because the copious correspondence between Crowly and Harris discussing the creation and revisions of the images is both substantial and available. Unlike almost any deck created before 1970, the Thoth can offer a concrete record of its development to anyone curious enough to seek. The letters between these two wacky talents detail the nuts-and-bolts process that resulted in the deck and the challenges/triumphs of the process. Thrilling and hilarious.

Also, like it or not, it IS the other critically important deck of the 20th century, so by studying it you are opening up a whole other subset of decks that eschew other traditions. Without the Thoth there would be no Haindl, no Gill, no Via, no Liber T, no Cosmic Tribe, no Quest, etc etc. So buy it in the spirit of opening new worlds to conquer. Crowley had a keen, ferocious sense of his place in the History of Magic, so even when he heads off in a strange unexpected tangent, it's for reasons that bear examination. Knowledge of these Thothesque decks only deepen and enrich your grasp on the more "familiar" decks in your collection... refracting in surprising and illuminating ways.

I could go on, but I may be beating the proverbial deceased equine. I thought someone should get a little specific. The Great Beast and I share a birthday }}){ so I sometimes feel like I have a duty to point seekers in a direction on Uncle Al's behalf.

Hope this helps.

Scion
 

Citrin

Scion, your post is Thoth-porn! :D I'm gonna go get my deck now and just drool over it... It truly is a masterpiece.
 

BodhiSeed

Thanks so much everyone for your opinions, thoughts and encouragements. It seems people really love this deck or don't care for it at all! Well my insatiable curiosity has won out -- I'm off to ebay to find an inexpensive copy or else I'll ask for it over the holidays as a present. Now to decide what size and version.....

Many Blessings,
Bodhran :D
 

sagewriter

I personally don't like it. I bought it as my frist deck after af riend showed me hers (figured i'd buy one i recognised). i have never bonded with it and wish i had not bought it :(
 

Dwaas

Buy it! And trim it!

Although I am not a fan of Mr. Crowley I AM a big fan of the Crowley/Harris Thoth. But not until I trimmed one of my decks.

I have two Thoths, one untrimmed normal size and and a cute little trimmed one. The difference in appearance is enormeous! Go and see the scans in the "trimming" threads en see how beautiful and powerfull the images are without their grey jailbars! As I said, buy and trim it! And then enjoy it!!! :D
Blessings
 

Lillie

I have always had the Thoth and used the Thoth.
About 20 years ago it was my first proper deck, and it is the only deck I read with.

I cannot speak highly enough of it.
After 20 years there is still something new to see, something new to learn.

But, in answer to your question.
If you want it, get it. If you don't, dont.
There is no rule to say you have to get one, or that you have to like it if you do.

If you are not drawn to it then perhaps you shouldn't waste your money.
But if you have some curiosity about it (as you seem to have) then you will never know what you really think about it until you have held it in your hands, played with it, tried it out for yourself.

If you ended up not liking it then you could probably trade it.
Or you could just keep it on your shelf for future reference.

If you are collecting Tarot decks you should have a Thoth. It is one of the 'great' decks of the 20th century, and no collection is complete without one.

Hard core Thothite? moi?
Thank you Marion, I am most happy to be called that! :D
 

gregory

I'm with those who say that even if you don't like it (I love it myself...) it is a seriously important deck. It is a classic; it influenced a lot of others (even some where this isn't immediately obvious) and it is fascinating to study. And often VERY cheap.

That said - if you don't want it, don't buy it. Just because it is a classic doesn't mean you HAVE to have it ! (and by the way - am I the ONLY person who likes Liber T ????) :cool4:
 

Scion

Nope, gregory... I love the Liber T. But we all know it needs a book or supporting material of some kind.

In fact, I'm campaigning Riccardo at LoScarabeo to post Negrini's notes on the minors online to make it more accessible to people who want to love it, but are stymied by the details... :)
 

Abrac

I don't really care for it, but I don't have anything negative to say about it either. I tried it a few years ago and couldn't get into it. I think what stopped me from going further into it was I couldn't really get my head around any of it. It's so unusual there's nothing to associate it with. To understand it you have to devote a lot of time and study to this one deck, much like with Crowley in general. I just never connected with Crowley. I may at some point, but with so many other avenues of interest occupying my time it may be awhile.

fools_fool