"Thoth-y" decks

Rasa

If you want a bit of help understanding some of the symbols particular to certain Thoth cards, or the ideology behind the deck, I'd recommend the book, "Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot' by Lon Milo Duquette. It's not quite as heavy-reading as the Crowleys 'Book of Thoth'.. much more approachable and clear, in my opinion.

I think the words 'Thoth-based' or 'Thoth clone' get thrown around a lot... but really, despite a few decks having some of the imagery or titles from the Thoth incorporated, I'd hesitate to give those names to very many things. The Thoth isn't as 'copyable' as the RWS, because it has a much greater depth in terms of all the layers of symbolic systems piled on to it, color symbolism, sacred geometry to evoke particular things, etc. I think that most decks that try to copy or improve the Thoth don't really come close to it.

I'd recommend studying the decks you mentioned as their own entities, letting them speak for themselves. Especially Silicon Dawn.. I think that one is really a universe unto itself.
 

Egypt Urnash

While the Silicon Dawn borrows a lot from the Thoth, it also borrows a lot from the Golden Dawn's deck... and the RWS is largely the Golden Dawn deck, with scenic minors. Honestly I don't think the gap between the Thoth and the RWS is all that huge, most modern decks take about as many liberties with the RWS as the Thoth did with the GD. The main thing about the Thoth is that it has one of the most detailed LWBs of all time, that's very explicit about all the hermetic symbolism encoded in it - Waite was a lot more gnomic than Crowley, who waxes positively logorrheic.

Crowley will tell you HEY THIS BIT OF FIRE IS TOTALLY A YOD OH AND THAT REMINDS ME OF THIS VISION I HAD WHILE I WAS STONED then go on for a couple paragraphs about some obscure tantric ritual, punctuated by a quote from his magickal pseudonym, while Waite is more likely to just passingly mention that "the significance of the tongues of fire should be obvious to those who have read Levi". So since Crowley spilled his guts about the mysticqkh symbolism of his and Harris' deck, folks who use that as their source text tend to end up carrying forwards more of the symbolism than those who just work from the RWS and may or may not pick up stuff like bits of flame in the shape of a symbolic Hebrew letter that functions as a mnemonic for huge volumes of Kabbalah the user's ideally crammed into their head.

I think I put like ten percent of that kind of stuff into the Silicon Dawn. Maybe twenty. And due to having less space in my book, I left most of it out of the text.

If you want the full-on OMGTHOTH experience, then yeah, go hard core and get the deck and the book before diddling with its descendants. But honestly IMHO the RWS/Thoth split is more along the lines of "do you prefer ice cream or gelato". Same thing, prepared a little differently. Dive in and play with the Thothy decks you have, start to get a feel for what's different from the more-popular RWS family, then snag a Thoth and start beating your head against the book if you want more. It makes a little more sense every time I read it.
 

Jewel

These are both very good points. I'm not sure I'm ready to (or even capable) of reading with non-scenic minors, but I DO want to at least attempt a Thoth eventually.
With rudementary knowledge of numerology (1-10), good suit/element correspondence, and associating the cards with those surrounding it you will be able to read the non-scenic minors. What is even more powerful about the Thoth and other decks like it is that the non-scenic minors also create a mood with shapes and colors - hence I always called them "moody minors". You add this tone to the other things I mentioned and you will be surprised at how much informaiton you will actually glean from them. I actually found these minors a bit less limited to read with as I did not have a spcific "scene" that could potentially restrict me. My favority Tothy deck is the Cosmic Tribe (which is not for everyone). If you can get passed the naked people, or like me they just don't bother you, the deck is trully amazing for reading.
 

Richard

Get a Thoth. Then you'll have the daddy of all the Thoth-inspired decks. The non-scenic minors are not a problem, as they have titles, which serve as keywords.
 

Asbestos Mango

Ah, hell, all that stuff about Kabbalah, numerology, and astrology refuses to stick in my brain no matter how many times I read about it. I read the Thoth intuitively, no problem. I'm not sure I would call the minors "non-scenic" exactly. Even without the keywords, they're painted in such a way as to get their point across. They're not just pips.
 

faunabay

Ah, hell, all that stuff about Kabbalah, numerology, and astrology refuses to stick in my brain no matter how many times I read about it. I read the Thoth intuitively, no problem. I'm not sure I would call the minors "non-scenic" exactly. Even without the keywords, they're painted in such a way as to get their point across. They're not just pips.

I'm so with you on this Asbestos. I keep trying to learn all the details that Crowley included but keep getting these "HUH? brain glaze over" moments! lol But I've now given myself a reprieve and have started just reading them intuitively. (for the most part)

As for the minors......quite a few years ago here on AT some of us came up with a phrase we use for minors like this. We call them "moody minors". :) They don't have true scenes like the RWS but they do give you some things to work with. So...... moody minors!! :)
 

Zephyros

I have seen this question many times over time in the forum, and I thought I'd write a little something here... :)

Many people say study of the Thoth takes time, resources, and long study. They say it is complicated, non user-friendly, and that study of all that goes into it is a mind-boggling procedure. Well, everyone who has ever said that is 100% correct. However, I think that, at least for the purpose of discussion, it is important to understand what that really means.

Study of the Thoth does take time and a certain level of commitment, but that is exactly what the deck was planned for. Crowley abhorred the thought that the deck would be sold without the book, as it would then be used for what he called "fortune telling," which was not his aim when creating it. The Thoth was made as a kind of spiritual journey and, as such, cannot be learned and then discarded, nor is there a quick and easy way to learn it. In my opinion, there shouldn't be.

When studying Kabbalah I don't always understand everything, and I haven't gotten around to astrology at all yet, but I'm in no hurry. In the short time I have studied the Thoth and its related disciplines, I feel it has contributed immensely to my life and my understanding of the spiritual world we live in. That indeed, is the true study of the Thoth, and the only thing it demands... is that you want to share in the knowledge that it has to impart. Not by learning to use it, but the study itself is part of using it, perhaps the most important part.

The Thoth can be read intuitively, I did so myself for many years, and still do. However, if by "intuitive" one means discarding all that has been written about it, in a sense one is cheating oneself of 98% of what the deck is and what it has to offer. On the other hand, "intuition" can also mean absorbing the studies of the Thoth and the spiritual world it describes and then incorporating that knowledge into the readings, then it is a wonderful experience.

People have stated on this thread that Kabbalah is difficult, and The Book of Thoth incomprehensible. Well, they are, but so what? I can't make heads or tails of Kabbalah yet, but the little I have learned is fascinating, and has already helped me with understanding of the deck, and really, life in general. I don't think one should learn (at least the basics) of it to get though it and get it over with, but to take your time with it, and take all that you can from it. The same thing with the Book of Thoth... I understood little the first time I read it, but now I read perhaps a sentence a day, sometimes a paragraph, and I do learn something new each time, my eyes are opened and inspired every time I open it.

This is how I see the Thoth. It is not easy, it does not spoonfeed you, and, really, your destination with it is very irrelevant. The journey is the main thing, perhaps the only thing, that is important with this deck, more than any other. It also goes to how people see Tarot in general. I don't like the view that Tarot is just a way to answer questions, or even meditation and divination, but to make us all better people with heightened awareness. In a sense, the reading itself is just a small part of using the cards; the most important aspect is the behind the scenes work that goes into it. If you are an intuitive reader, then it is the hours on which you reflect upon the cards and make them mean something to you; if otherwise, then it is the study of the profound occult and philosophical ideas that go into Tarot. Not that the Thoth asks you to stop feeling, it is actually a very important part of it, but that you develop your feeling with knowledge and wisdom.

Remember Moses and Jesus in the desert, Muhammad in his cave, Elijah in the time of the famine... spirituality takes time and effort, and seldom do the great mysteries come to those who take the quick and easy path. Thankfully we have the Thoth as a map, but it does not mean the journey itself is less arduous or takes less time. I won't go into a rant about modern society and New Age, but it is a relatively new invention, that knowing nothing = knowing everything.

After all that, the best way to deal with the Thoth is through "effortless effort," and endless patience, both of which the Thoth teaches, if you really want to learn. :)
 

Alta

After all that, the best way to deal with the Thoth is through "effortless effort," and endless patience, both of which the Thoth teaches, if you really want to learn. :)
Well said. The deck seems to draw you in originally through its beauty and the poetry in its lines. But many decks have beauty. The beauty just gets you in the door, after that the amazing twists and turns hold you. Even though this isn't my regular everyday reading deck, I have read so much with and about this deck over the years that I also feel it has enriched my life.
 

Richard

......After all that, the best way to deal with the Thoth is through "effortless effort," and endless patience, both of which the Thoth teaches, if you really want to learn. :)
What an absolutely splendid post, closrapexa!