5 of Swords

Is there ever a time that this card is saying, "You'll give up too easily"? And so, therefore the cards are kind of giving you the truth, but it's effect (on me right now anyway) is to turn back around and face that bully and tell him you're not going to put up with his shit anymore? Is there ever a time, this card is taunting you to face your fears and fight, rather than walk away? This was the outcome card and Justice was the summary card. With Justice as the summary card, I'm having a hard time seeing that walking away is the right thing to do, and that the bully is right to push you around. Justice's influence seems to say, if you walk away, you get nothing. If you want something, you better turn back around and fight for it -- don't give up so easily, don't let this guy push you around because it's not right if you let it stand like this and just walk away.

What do you think?

The way you explain it really makes it click for me .. I can see what you mean.

I usually see this card more in terms of 'stand your ground but mind the difference'. You might not be able to get your opponent to agree with you but you won't bend your own principles either. So if you walk away, it's just because any further dealings with that person are useless, and you don't want to waste any more of your time. This might be what the Justice is also about: when you're attacked - defend yourself, when you're not - why bother.

Dangala said:

The way you explain it really makes it click for me .. I can see what you mean.

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Yes, because -- if no one stands up to that bully, he'll keep going, right? I should clarify, that the "bully" in my scenario is a situation, rather than a person. But I thought it would be easier to discuss a personification.

dancing_moon said:

I usually see this card more in terms of 'stand your ground but mind the difference'. You might not be able to get your opponent to agree with you but you won't bend your own principles either. So if you walk away, it's just because any further dealings with that person are useless, and you don't want to waste any more of your time. This might be what the Justice is also about: when you're attacked - defend yourself, when you're not - why bother.

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Now there is something to think about! "Stand your ground but mind the difference." I will definitely have to think more deeply on that one. It's pulling forth the idea that I really need to consider the strengths/weaknesses in the situation, and within myself. Maybe there is just not enough alignment there for me in the situation to make it work. OR.. maybe there could be once I have given strengths/weaknesses more thought... perhaps that card could change. It's not exactly a 'fixed' kind of card. OR again.. maybe once I have evaluated the strengths/weaknesses, I will see that I would not simply be giving up "so easily" but after careful contemplation and understanding (4 of Swords naturally precedes it) and therefore could feel better about walking away.

Thanks!

Amanda said:

Is there ever a time that this card is saying, "You'll give up too easily"? And so, therefore the cards are kind of giving you the truth, but it's effect (on me right now anyway) is to turn back around and face that bully and tell him you're not going to put up with his shit anymore? Is there ever a time, this card is taunting you to face your fears and fight, rather than walk away?

What do you think?

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Everything is situational/contextual, so under the right circumstances I could definitely see that interpretation.

dancing_moon said:

I usually see this card more in terms of 'stand your ground but mind the difference'. You might not be able to get your opponent to agree with you but you won't bend your own principles either. So if you walk away, it's just because any further dealings with that person are useless, and you don't want to waste any more of your time. This might be what the Justice is also about: when you're attacked - defend yourself, when you're not - why bother.

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I can also see this interpretation, which is close to "choose your battles wisely".

Rodney

Hi lovelies! *waves*

dancing_moon said:

I usually see this card more in terms of 'stand your ground but mind the difference'. You might not be able to get your opponent to agree with you but you won't bend your own principles either. So if you walk away, it's just because any further dealings with that person are useless, and you don't want to waste any more of your time. This might be what the Justice is also about: when you're attacked - defend yourself, when you're not - why bother.

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rwcarter said:

I can also see this interpretation, which is close to "choose your battles wisely".

Rodney

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I have a new question for you (and anyone else that might like to answer) regarding the 5 of Swords!

Is there ever a time that this "bully" is actually fighting for what he truly believes is the right thing, and the conflict is actually that it may not be a popular view/belief held by others? Does that kind of go along with choosing battles wisely or standing your ground but minding the difference? I guess what I'm wondering is, could this bully actually be a "good" guy?

rwcarter said:

I can also see this interpretation, which is close to "choose your battles wisely".

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I can very much see that. Which ties in with:

Amanda said:

I have a new question for you (and anyone else that might like to answer) regarding the 5 of Swords!

Is there ever a time that this "bully" is actually fighting for what he truly believes is the right thing, and the conflict is actually that it may not be a popular view/belief held by others? Does that kind of go along with choosing battles wisely or standing your ground but minding the difference? I guess what I'm wondering is, could this bully actually be a "good" guy?

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I'd actually say yes. Sometimes the only way to get to where you want (as in a good what you want ) is to stand up and simply bully people into submission - and in the end maybe they will actually see what you were about. So maybe it is wise to look at just what that bully is fighting for.

I wouldn't see Justice the way you do here. I think the influence of Justice is the harsh truth but a fair truth. Justice is the issue being brought to the surface and being faced and dealt with. I don't think Justice means "you get nothing" I would only read it like that if it was to represent someone else exacting "Justice" on you in terms of their own personal vengeance.

I can and have seen Five of Swords to mean giving up especially when representing another person.

Amanda said:

Is there ever a time that this "bully" is actually fighting for what he truly believes is the right thing, and the conflict is actually that it may not be a popular view/belief held by others? Does that kind of go along with choosing battles wisely or standing your ground but minding the difference? I guess what I'm wondering is, could this bully actually be a "good" guy?

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Sure, why not? I often see 5 of Swords as a 'battle of principles', and as hopeless as it may get, it often implies that both parties hold on to their ideas of the 'right' and the 'good', and not just bully each other for the fun of it. The only problem is that those ideas clash with the other person's ideas so much that no truce or compromise is ever possible, that's why walking away is sometimes the best one can do.

Amanda said:

Is there ever a time that this "bully" is actually fighting for what he truly believes is the right thing, and the conflict is actually that it may not be a popular view/belief held by others? Does that kind of go along with choosing battles wisely or standing your ground but minding the difference? I guess what I'm wondering is, could this bully actually be a "good" guy?

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Definitely! The underdog finally gets one over on those who have been oppressing him. Or taking up an unpopular cause and winning.