Wands are fire, swords are air...or maybe not...!

interesting questions. I think of swords as intellectual, sharp thought and so ethereal.

However.

The sword is forged in fire. And I'm thinking of the burning swords of angels.

But then there's the assumption of the wand as wood; we have extant metal wands belonging to Viking women.

Nice to see you back recently, Euripides. I'd been missing you.

Pentacles can be Earth if you envision them as carved from stone or metal. Or Fire, if you see the metal as smelted from ore and forged in fire. Or as Air, if you see it as a pure thought-symbol, or a piece of jewellery with holes that will let air through. Or Water, if you see it as painted on a pebble and dropped into a stream.

Cups can be Water, if they are filled with water. Air, if they are empty. Fire if they are filled with a flammable liquid (like, say, brandy or rum). Earth, if they are modelled in clay, or metal-mined-from-earth, or even glass, which is made of sand.

Swords can be Earth, because that's where metal comes from. Water, because they spend a part of their life-cycle molten, and can draw liquids like blood. Air, because of sharpness of thought, and being streamlined in flight. And Fire, because of being forged in a furnace.

Wands can be Earth, because wood grows from soil. Water, because trees need water to grow. Air, because trees need Air to grow, and wind blows between tehir leaves. And Fire, because they need sunlight to grow, and they can burn.

See? You *can* stretch things too far, if you're of-a-mind.

nisaba said:

See? You *can* stretch things too far, if you're of-a-mind.

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Who said it's "too far"??

Just popped in to clarify my question a bit more- [yes there are a lot of decks with swapped correspondences] - but specifically I'm trying to find out ...

if people who actually use wands and swords/athames look for a matching tarot deck, or maybe they worked with tarot first and then the elements from their tarot influenced the element of their tools?

For instance are there any Thoth/GD Magical Tarot users who have an fire athame?

Are there Modern Spellcasters tarot users who have a fire wand?

Maybe there are lotus wand users out there? Which deck do they use?

earthair said:

Questions for witches/ceremonial magicians and anyone who uses wands/athames/swords...

If you think swords are fire and wands are air, can you / do you want to work with a deck where swords are air and wands are fire?

Which came first for you- a deck which you clicked with, which imprinted the elements a certain way around, and then you matched that to your ritual tools....or did you learn to attribute your tools to a certain element and then seek decks to match that?

Has anyone swapped things around because of things not agreeing?

To people who don't use ritual tools- imagine you have a wand in your hand, and now a sword/athame... instinctively, which element is it? Or do you feel tarot has imprinted a certain way around on you?

Personally I was tarot first, (wands=fire and swords= air) and tools later. And I know some people think Golden Dawn deliberately changed the elements around, but I don't see why

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The first deck I really clicked with was the Legend Deck which has swords as fire and wands as air. It's not how I originally thought of them but I had no trouble reading that deck that way as the imagery was consistent with the "switch." I personally associate metal with air so swords are comfortably air for me in other decks.

Metal was air to me before I clicked with a deck. Clicking with a wands-as-air deck didn't give me trouble but also did not end up making me favor decks that did the same thing. Most decks follow metal=air so most of mine are like that. I do happen to agree with swords being air but I don't factor it into my decision on which deck to get next or to use.

earthair said:

Just popped in to clarify my question a bit more- [yes there are a lot of decks with swapped correspondences] - but specifically I'm trying to find out ...

if people who actually use wands and swords/athames look for a matching tarot deck, or maybe they worked with tarot first and then the elements from their tarot influenced the element of their tools?

Click to expand...

No. I don't specifically look for decks that match my ritual tools.
I buy them foremost because I love the artwork.
All other bits follow on afterwards - I discover through use what category the deck eventually falls into for me - ritual deck, reading deck, practice/study deck, novelty to look at and/or adorn Tarot Altar deck.

nisaba said:

Nice to see you back recently, Euripides. I'd been missing you.

See? You *can* stretch things too far, if you're of-a-mind.

Click to expand...

I've missed you, too. <3

I'm such a one for taking the chain-of-thought way too far... I think quite a bit of 19th century comparative mythology was exactly this!

Perhaps the key is to pick a tradition and stick with it? (And apologies... I know I'm not actually answering the original question, but rather heading off on my own tangent!)

As one of the second group: Tarot has really imprinted it's attributions onto my mind. I even struggle with decks as the Silicon Dawn where Pentacles and Wands are changed (as Eteilla had it - thanks for clearing this up, Tanga! [emoji120] ).

But: I also thought the attribution of fire to Wands counter intuitive in the beginning. But then, fire in the Tarot is something more spiritual to me than actual fire, more like a spark of life or the kundalini. This would fit the sprouting wands again...

The way I buy decks is that I connect to the Divine and buy the ones I am guided to buy. Sometimes this leads me to having decks that are make me raise my eyebrows with art, or with some associations that don't initially jive with me, but within the context of the deck is exactly right, and it turns out that getting to know that deck was something I personally needed or or it turned out to be the deck that I needed to use for someone else.

There are decks where I was drawn to the art, but not just because it was pretty, but because I loved the way the artist depicted the Death card and other "scary" cards (Shadowscapes Tarot, specifically).

It's all about context because people have different associations due to different cultures, and different archtypical (and even stereotypical) belief/knowledge sets. I was initially surprised that Pentacles were Earth because I associated it with stars of heaven, but I accepted the Earth association since we're all made of star stuff.

nisaba said:

Nice to see you back recently, Euripides. I'd been missing you.

Pentacles can be Earth if you envision them as carved from stone or metal. Or Fire, if you see the metal as smelted from ore and forged in fire. Or as Air, if you see it as a pure thought-symbol, or a piece of jewellery with holes that will let air through. Or Water, if you see it as painted on a pebble and dropped into a stream.

Cups can be Water, if they are filled with water. Air, if they are empty. Fire if they are filled with a flammable liquid (like, say, brandy or rum). Earth, if they are modelled in clay, or metal-mined-from-earth, or even glass, which is made of sand.

Swords can be Earth, because that's where metal comes from. Water, because they spend a part of their life-cycle molten, and can draw liquids like blood. Air, because of sharpness of thought, and being streamlined in flight. And Fire, because of being forged in a furnace.

Wands can be Earth, because wood grows from soil. Water, because trees need water to grow. Air, because trees need Air to grow, and wind blows between tehir leaves. And Fire, because they need sunlight to grow, and they can burn.

See? You *can* stretch things too far, if you're of-a-mind.

Click to expand...

I don't see this as going to far. Actually, I was about to post something similar about how technically, they represent ALL the main four elements, like we are made up of all the elements, but not all in equal amounts. So, it depends on how you look at things. The number 6 can look like a 9, or a six can look like an eye like so: 6_6 or a six can look like the cancer Ziodac sign, or even half of a simplified Yin/Yang symbol, or even a funky coma when it's upside down depending the font and placement. So it all really depends upon the context in which a deck is being used.

Generally, for me, if the deck I am using is created with specific associations in mind, I keep that in mind, though often, using a deck is simply a jumping off point to revelation and those initial associations go right out the window, and that is okay. We're often told to trust our spiritual gifts/intuition, and our angels and guides, when it comes to these things.

Wands and athames aren't an integral part of my practice but wands as fire always made sense to me because the wand is a sort of conduit for your energy--will--and fire, to me, represents one's will. Swords as air made sense to me because on the rare occasion I use a blade ritually, it's to symbolically sever sever ties between myself and that which is no longer helping me or is hurting me by waving it around me which is cutting through the air.

On the equally rare occasion where I call quarters, I also use candle for fire and incense for air. To me, the wand and athame aren't part of that, it's the candle and incense.