picture vs meaning

i got four of cups reversed for this outcome position...

normally it means uninterested..but the picture on my card (the zombie tarot) has nothing that would make me think of those themes...the main focus point is a cozy home....

when you use decks other than the raider and there seems to be differences ... do you stick to the most accepted meaning (raider) or go by the picture in this card, even though it's completely different?

hope that makes sense...

I go by what the card is showing me so they way I read (number)(suit) in one deck might be entirely different than the same (number)(suit) of another deck. Also, the way they interact and influence each other can really change. Some, it's just minor variances here and there but it all adds up and sure does keep it interesting to read with different decks. It's why I like to know what deck someone is using if they are asking about their cards/reading.

Sorry, but this is a peeve of mine. There is no deck called the "Raider Waite". The original publisher was Rider and Sons, which is why the deck is known as the Rider Waite.

Back to your question, there are a lot of folks (me included) who read the pictures more so than use "traditional" interpretations. Having as many decks as I do, I figure the reason why I'm using a particular deck for a reading (whether I choose the deck or my Querent does) is because of important clues given by the specific imagery. I would give a completely different reading using the same cards from a different deck.

The Intuitive Studies Group (ISG) Reading Exchange helps folks to develop that skill. If you look through any of the DDT (Dark Deck Truths), ISG or RED (Reading with Erotic Decks) exchanges that I've done, you'll see that I almost always base my interpretations on what I see in the card vs the "traditional" meaning of the card. So if the image tells you something different than the "standard" interpretation, go with what the image tells you.

Rodney

hermit-IX said:

i got four of cups reversed for this outcome position...

normally it means uninterested..but the picture on my card (the zombie tarot) has nothing that would make me think of those themes...the main focus point is a cozy home....

when you use decks other than the raider and there seems to be differences ... do you stick to the most accepted meaning (raider) or go by the picture in this card, even though it's completely different?

hope that makes sense...

Click to expand...

For useful results with such decks, I think that the intent and effort really has to be there to learn and faithfully apply the LWB, and/or to study the imagery and get a clear feel for it beforehand -- if these components will be utilized at all. Otherwise, "default" meanings that have already been imprinted upon the mind and are more commonly encountered (i.e. RWS, Thoth, Marseilles) will influence which cards are drawn, leading to confusion.

It seems to occur quite often that readers using alternative decks just stick with familiar RWS, etc. meanings -- as long as they want those meanings to be true... And only when this "standard" view suggests an unwanted result are LWB/image-based meanings then used, or rather cherry-picked, leading to a biased interpretation. (This would be especially likely during readings done for oneself or otherwise hitting close to home, unless the reader is disciplined/experienced enough to prevent it.)

So in the scenario that you've described, I'd ask myself if I might be trying to dismiss a relatively unpleasant/difficult yet perhaps more plausible RWS 4C Rx 'Outcome' (like dissatisfaction leading the way out of a self-imposed rut) in favour of a seemingly "happier", home-related one. To help ensure accuracy, there should at least be an awareness of any tendency to flip-flop into misleading interpretations.

I'm in the 'deck has specific meanings' camp, but that the meaning of the original should be borne in mind. That said, I'm not seeing 'cozy home' in this card *at all*.

Zombie lady is cuddled up with her lover (or is it her unknowing victim?) but is gazing off into space, thinking about whatever is going on elsewhere or perhaps not thinking at all. 13 describes the usual 4 cups as the 'grass is greener' card and I can see that very much in this image ... she's not even looking at the Mr TV Handsome that fate has literally placed in her lap.

rwcarter said:

Sorry, but this is a peeve of mine. There is no deck called the "Raider Waite". The original publisher was Rider and Sons, which is why the deck is known as the Rider Waite.

Click to expand...

But isn't there a deck called Raiders of the Lost Waite?

FLizarraga said:

But isn't there a deck called Raiders of the Lost Waite?

Click to expand...

I'm now seeing an Indiana Jones themed deck in the colors and art style of Pamela Colman-Smith and I kind of think I really want it....

Because there are so many new decks out there with an unprecedented degree of well-intentioned artistic meddling with the "traditional" images, I usually just stick with the numerical, elemental, astrological and hierarchical (pips/courts/
trumps) correspondences unless something unique in the pictures captures my imagination (for example, right now I'm learning the Voyager Tarot, a colorful collage deck; understanding is starting to slowly coalesce from within the "fruit-salad" images, but all bets were off when I started, and the cards' on-board keywords are mostly different from anything I've encountered before).

I got frustrated with the Waite-Smith deck because so many of the Minor Arcana pictures appear to "hijack" the interpretation, moving it away from Waite's more esoteric vision. The Thoth with its non-narrative pip cards has always been my favorite anyway. Obviously, the Tarot de Marseille is only partly amenable to my approach, yielding mainly to numerical and hierarchical analysis, with maybe a bit of suit/element underpinning but no complex astrological associations to speak of.

I'm a beginner, and as such, I'm sticking with fairly Rider-Waite-Smith based decks while I learn the meanings, so I'm pretty focused on the meanings of the cards.

HOWEVER - I'm very into the differences among the artwork of different decks and depictions of the Rider-Waite system cards, and will take additional nuances and meaning from the pictures, and from the artist's own descriptions of their work.

A really good example is the Pearls of Wisdom tarot, which is pretty Rider-Waite-Smith based in it's depictions, but with some fairly significant twists, and a definitely positive, healing, supportive bent to all the meanings. I would say I'm still reading with the basic meanings in mind, but leaning toward the most positive and uplifting interpretations of them.

For me the "meanings" are basic concepts that can be looked at from many different angles and perspectives, and sometimes take pages to define.....so it's really not very cut and dried as to whether I'm using the accepted meanings or the pictures - I'm using both.

hermit-IX said:

when you use decks other than the raider and there seems to be differences ... do you stick to the most accepted meaning (raider) or go by the picture in this card, even though it's completely different?

hope that makes sense...

Click to expand...

Makes perfect sense.

I've been reading long enough to know that I need to go by the picture, especially if it is the picture that initially strikes me in a reading. If I ignore the picture and my intuition, and try to force a traditional meaning to work, I feel that I am being dishonest with myself and turning my back on a message that I really needed to hear. In the end, the messages truly come from our heart and our gut, rather than the cards anyway.

Alternately, there's nothing wrong with comparing traditional meanings with the messages we get from the pictures. Combining the two methods can add extra depth to your readings.