(8X4+4) layout v. (9X4) layout?

Llynn

This is a beginner's question and I apologize beforehand if it has been answered elsewhere. The LWB for my deck shows the Grand Tableau spread with the (8X4+4) arrangement, however, I have seen online a full spread using a (9X4) arrangement (on Iris Treppner's site). My question is: why/when would the (9X4) be used?

I recently started learning the Lenormand oracle with Sylvie's 'no-layout' method from her book and the AT workshops. I plan on buying the Treppner and/or Britta materials but not at the moment - still working on Sylvie's ideas. I'm being just a little bit impatient I suppose, but I prefer to think of it as 'being prepared' :)
 

lord_ewin

Edited - see blue below.

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1st of all, I've never used the 8X4 + 4, so I can't comment on that. Would apprecite an explanation on how it works though!

2nd, I don't use the Treppner method for reading the 9X4 either. I am told that I use a variation of the French method.

With that in mind: In my view, the 9X4 is a method with a great deal of detail. I use the 9X4 for an extremely detailed reading as it answers a great deal of questions in one sitting. 'Most of the Secrets come out,' in my honest opinion. If done right, it does more than answer questions, it gives us a psychic portrait of the person we are reading and the people important to that person.

There are two big differences in my opinion as well with the 9X4 that I use and the no-layout.

#1 -- The method I use assumes that the man / woman cards is ALWAYS someone you have affections for or a soul mate of sorts IF (and only if) it is active in the reading. There is no need to 'Charge these cards'. So if you're reading for a man and a woman falls in his past-future line, or anywhere else with influence, it means that person's past, present, or future soul mate, wife/husband or significant other (always).

#2 -- I have the querrent shuffle the cards, thus attuning the cards to their situation. They DO NOT need to be thinking about a particular question. Most of their concerns are usually answered for. Note that I have had good results with me shuffling for them, but it is my preference that if possible that they shuffle their own destinies.

#3 a third difference that has come to mind is that, in the 9X4, whatever is to the left of the subject card is the past. Whatever is to the right is the future. There is no 'ambiguity' about what is part of the present or past.


Hope that helps..!! :D
 

IheartTarot

Llynn said:
The LWB for my deck shows the Grand Tableau spread with the (8X4+4) arrangement, however, I have seen online a full spread using a (9X4) arrangement (on Iris Treppner's site). My question is: why/when would the (9X4) be used?

Treppner says that the former is older and has a wider fan base. It arose from the older version of Lenormand decks with 56 cards that were laid out in 8x7 rows. When the deck was reduced to 36, people continued laying out cards in rows of 8 except the last row as only 4 cards are left over.

Treppner covers the pros and cons of each GT layout. There are differences in the way the cards are read. You would probably have to try both to see which you prefer.

(I usually lay out my cards on a melamine tray and run out of space after 8 cards so I ended up using the 8x4+4 by default. :D I don't usually do the GT but for the "no layout" spread I do lay out all the cards and in a relationship reading or multi-level reading the card positions in relation to each other sometimes matter.)
 

rif

I always preferred the 9x4 for it's symmetry. Treppner teaches their use interchangeable, and leaves it to you which layout to use. They are otherwise the same, although I've seen people attach specific meanings to the extra 4 cards in the 8x4. To my mind that conflict with reading the houses though.

Compared to lord_ewin, I did not learn to emphasize the Man and Lady as soul mates in the same row. It was just assumed that they were a present or future couple, in most cases. The card contexts would help to show who they were. And even in smaller layouts - line of 5 or square of 9 for example - this held true.

It was always fun to practice this layout, but challening for me in terms of time and space. :D

My only suggestion is to pick your layout and style, then be consistent with it for a while. There are many techniques for reading a GT but they shouldn't all be used together. One author explains this quite nicely, that you basically end up with a jumbled reading where you can say anything.
 

lord_ewin

IheartTarot said:
Treppner covers the pros and cons of each GT layout. There are differences in the way the cards are read. You would probably have to try both to see which you prefer.

Of course, this is only good for the Treppner method.

The 56 card is what I equal to the Grand Jeu, but I don't spread that out. OMG. O_O
 

lord_ewin

rif said:
Compared to lord_ewin, I did not learn to emphasize the Man and Lady as soul mates in the same row. It was just assumed that they were a present or future couple, in most cases. The card contexts would help to show who they were. And even in smaller layouts - line of 5 or square of 9 for example - this held true.

Rif -- edited my post to reflect something in case this changes things for you.
 

rif

lord_ewin said:
1st of all, I've never used the 8X4 + 4, so I can't comment on that. Would apprecite an explanation on how it works though!

From what I've seen, it can be read however one would read the 9x4, with the exception that you have 4 cards hanging off the bottom. :D I think some people give them special meanings, such as "the wish" or "a fear" or things like that.

#1 -- The method I use assumes that the man / woman cards is ALWAYS someone you have affections for or a soul mate of sorts IF (and only if) it is active in the reading. ... So if you're reading for a man and a woman falls in his past-future line, or anywhere else with influence, it means that person's past, present, or future soul mate, wife/husband or significant other (always).

That is always the case in traditional reading, as I learned it. Even if you only do a line of five cards, the Man and Lady play those roles.

By "active" do you mean only in a line? For example, if I were doing a freeform reading a la Treppner (and others), I could work my way in a zigzag fashion from Man to Lady, perhaps passing through Ring, Heart and Bouquet. This would likely be a solid romantic relationship. But they could be on opposite ends of the tableau, and Man and Lady would still be read with this significance.
 

lord_ewin

rif said:
By "active" do you mean only in a line? For example, if I were doing a freeform reading a la Treppner (and others), I could work my way in a zigzag fashion from Man to Lady, perhaps passing through Ring, Heart and Bouquet. This would likely be a solid romantic relationship. But they could be on opposite ends of the tableau, and Man and Lady would still be read with this significance.

By active, I mean that they impact on the querrent's past, present or future in some way. So they may not be on the same line, but could be read via diagonals. Sometimes the cards aren't snagged by left or right, up or down, or diagonals... those I call neutral, but do still read them if the querrent has a specific question and a card has a particular bearing on the question. IE: Health, or whatever not.

IE: If I'm reading for a woman and the man card isn't 'active' (is neutral), I can still go read around that card to see what they want in a significant other, etc. I could tell them, that there isn't anyone serious in their life right now (unless there are other indications of a 'friendship with benefits' which often appears), but that they're looking for X, Y, Z.
 

rif

I see. Thanks. :)
 

Llynn

lord_ewin, IHeartTarot and rif, thank you very much for your answers. They do indeed help. :)