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VII of Cups Symbolism

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruby Jewel View Post
what is an omininil?
It's the cosmic egg. The All the Everything comes from. It is the darkness before the light ascended upon it.

Or maybe it is all that he needed on his journey through the rest of the major arcana and because it is all and nothing wrapped up in one it can be small.

I'm just throwing around ideas.
Top   #21
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Originally Posted by Shardz View Post
Well, since I was relying on memory and didn't review the card properly before I posted, my mind remembered red for some reason. The aura is red, not the cloth; -1 point for me and my lack of coffee. I haven't heard or read anywhere that the mystery figure represents the High Priestess, but I was close with the inner Self correlation, I suppose. I'm not exactly sure why the aura is red, however. Perhaps that little detail points to the pomegranates? Even though the veil is white, as the High Priestess wears, I wouldn't have caught this detail unless there was some blue or a moon on the cloth. I guess I had better hit the literature tonight to get to the bottom of this intriguing factoid.
Maybe it is red because it is the lowest chakra color. It's the base that connects us closest to Earth. Red also has the shortest wavelength, thus blinding us to only seeing what most see in this physical reality.

If the aura was purple or indigo we wouldn't need a veil.
Top   #22
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And all 7 cups are suppose to represent all seven major planets in the ancient world. There are also 7 chakras. And we can go on with 7...

So if you look closely you'll be able to figure out which is which.

Here is another hint:

The face of the woman is the Empress, who represents Venus.

Back to the veil:

The veiled woman is the High Priestess. It was also known that women use to veil themselves even before the Koran came up with that dumb quote about hiding women behind the veil....As a protection against men thinking about sex every 7 seconds.

Because women were suppose to carry the secrets to life. We would bleed and not die. We use to be considered sacred. Men thought women were the connection to the higher more godly world while men were more primal, thus thinking too often about sex. So a woman would only reveal herself to a man and share her sexuality with a man when he was ready to receive the information, thus connecting him to something higher and then ultimately a new life would blossom inside of her.

The bride in the West veils herself and the man lifts the veil to reveal his wife. As does the High Priestess lift her veil to you when you are ready. A veil is symbolic on many, many levels and none should be confused with female repression.

"The ego is a veil between humans and God" Rumi
Top   #23
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Approaching the card in a more generalized fashion and mindset, the spirtual number seven represented here with the various aspects in place could also possibly allude to the seven Deadly Sins and/or the seven Divine Virtues. Choosing to shed the deeper esoteric meanings, which Waite was infamously known to do with the Minor Arcana (as he was obviously thinking about sex every 7 seconds), one can arrive at numerous meanings to suit the current relative spread in question.

However, this card in particular brings a lot of mystery to the table with the wide array of symbolism that definitely encourages intense visual study. As is the case with looking at clouds or defining ink blotter images, a wealth of things can present themselves at a glance. Moving forward to the wreath of victory, it would appear to yield what looks like a small 7 in the bottom middle of the wreath, along with what appears to be a skull on the cup.

Wreath of Victory in the 7 of Cups

Quite a few Tarot authors have associated VII The Chariot with victory, though I tend to lean towards conscious Will with that particular card. The evident skull on the cup eludes me completely, unless I am just imagining things and it's simply tarnish or remnants of the printing process. As this card is also associated with Scorpio, there is indeed enough mystery to uncover here to satisfy nearly any curious Scorpio's research endeavors. Altered consciousness would be an understatement in deciphering all the symbolism presented here, especially with Waite's paltry explanations of the Minor Arcana (and arguably a great deal of his writings in the Pictorial Key to the Tarot.)
Top   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shardz View Post
Approaching the card in a more generalized fashion and mindset, the spirtual number seven represented here with the various aspects in place could also possibly allude to the seven Deadly Sins and/or the seven Divine Virtues. Choosing to shed the deeper esoteric meanings, which Waite was infamously known to do with the Minor Arcana (as he was obviously thinking about sex every 7 seconds), one can arrive at numerous meanings to suit the current relative spread in question.

However, this card in particular brings a lot of mystery to the table with the wide array of symbolism that definitely encourages intense visual study. As is the case with looking at clouds or defining ink blotter images, a wealth of things can present themselves at a glance. Moving forward to the wreath of victory, it would appear to yield what looks like a small 7 in the bottom middle of the wreath, along with what appears to be a skull on the cup.

Wreath of Victory in the 7 of Cups

Quite a few Tarot authors have associated VII The Chariot with victory, though I tend to lean towards conscious Will with that particular card. The evident skull on the cup eludes me completely, unless I am just imagining things and it's simply tarnish or remnants of the printing process. As this card is also associated with Scorpio, there is indeed enough mystery to uncover here to satisfy nearly any curious Scorpio's research endeavors. Altered consciousness would be an understatement in deciphering all the symbolism presented here, especially with Waite's paltry explanations of the Minor Arcana (and arguably a great deal of his writings in the Pictorial Key to the Tarot.)
Since the number 7 is the number of "magical vibration".... and is the number of the occultist and the esoteric perhaps that is the sole meaning of "7" here.....especially it is all just a fantasy. Any thoughts on that?
Top   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shardz View Post
Approaching the card in a more generalized fashion and mindset, the spirtual number seven represented here with the various aspects in place could also possibly allude to the seven Deadly Sins and/or the seven Divine Virtues. Choosing to shed the deeper esoteric meanings, which Waite was infamously known to do with the Minor Arcana (as he was obviously thinking about sex every 7 seconds), one can arrive at numerous meanings to suit the current relative spread in question.

However, this card in particular brings a lot of mystery to the table with the wide array of symbolism that definitely encourages intense visual study. As is the case with looking at clouds or defining ink blotter images, a wealth of things can present themselves at a glance. Moving forward to the wreath of victory, it would appear to yield what looks like a small 7 in the bottom middle of the wreath, along with what appears to be a skull on the cup.

Wreath of Victory in the 7 of Cups



Quite a few Tarot authors have associated VII The Chariot with victory, though I tend to lean towards conscious Will with that particular card. The evident skull on the cup eludes me completely, unless I am just imagining things and it's simply tarnish or remnants of the printing process. As this card is also associated with Scorpio, there is indeed enough mystery to uncover here to satisfy nearly any curious Scorpio's research endeavors. Altered consciousness would be an understatement in deciphering all the symbolism presented here, especially with Waite's paltry explanations of the Minor Arcana (and arguably a great deal of his writings in the Pictorial Key to the Tarot.)
I've always seen the wreath as Saturn because of it's relation to the laurel wreath that goes around the World card. The world card is part of a kind of "death" as in...this is the final end to your journey and you get to start over again soon. So that could be one of the reasons why there is a skull in that cup. Laurel has several meanings (the plant), one is victory because the ancient Greeks would crown the person with victory leaves, but the other meaning is prophesy, which is why (i think) it is used so heavily in Tarot.

If you decide to go with the 7 original planets then the Moon is associated with the HP and the veiled woman, so it couldn't be the chariot because the chariot also rules the moon.

I like the idea of the 7 deadly sins though because the 7 of Cups tends more towards being slightly negative because we get so caught up with all the choices and desires.

Lust: veiled woman
Greed: Jeweled Cup
Gluttony: Castle
Sloth/Sadness: Woman with the closed eyes who is all "blue"
Wrath: Dragon
Envy:Snake
Pride: Wreath

Of course, I'm going to have to think about this some more as I just came up with that right now. What do you think of the list?

I went to wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins

One artist put Pride down as the tower of babel, so that might even be the castle.
Top   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurelle View Post
I've always seen the wreath as Saturn because of it's relation to the laurel wreath that goes around the World card. The world card is part of a kind of "death" as in...this is the final end to your journey and you get to start over again soon. So that could be one of the reasons why there is a skull in that cup. Laurel has several meanings (the plant), one is victory because the ancient Greeks would crown the person with victory leaves, but the other meaning is prophesy, which is why (i think) it is used so heavily in Tarot.

If you decide to go with the 7 original planets then the Moon is associated with the HP and the veiled woman, so it couldn't be the chariot because the chariot also rules the moon.

I like the idea of the 7 deadly sins though because the 7 of Cups tends more towards being slightly negative because we get so caught up with all the choices and desires.

Lust: veiled woman
Greed: Jeweled Cup
Gluttony: Castle
Sloth/Sadness: Woman with the closed eyes who is all "blue"
Wrath: Dragon
Envy:Snake
Pride: Wreath

Of course, I'm going to have to think about this some more as I just came up with that right now. What do you think of the list?

I went to wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins

One artist put Pride down as the tower of babel, so that might even be the castle.
I guess what I am getting at here....and trying to say......is that since all the imagery is a figment of the imagination, ie.....no basis in reality........how can the images have any meaning at all since they are just an array of fantasies in a cloud of fog?
Top   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruby Jewel View Post
I guess what I am getting at here....and trying to say......is that since all the imagery is a figment of the imagination, ie.....no basis in reality........how can the images have any meaning at all since they are just an array of fantasies in a cloud of fog?
Given the generalized popular belief of this card, it certainly would appear to be an assortment of odds and ends that could float around in the mind to cause distraction and delusional thinking. However, as we well know from this dynamic duo, nothing in this deck seems incidental or randomly depicted without some sort of meaning, hidden or otherwise. Of course, we could be looking too deeply at the details, but I do believe that Pamela had an incredible sense of intuition to a point that well exceeded her low grade in the Golden Dawn.

As Waite was known to hide his esoteric secrets in plain sight, more notably with the Major Arcana, it has been suggested that Pixie took command of the Minor Arcana utilizing basic descriptions from Waite; ultimately, utilizing her intuition with glimpses of older decks to guide her through the artistic tasks. As Pixie had some strong psychic talents in her own right, many have slaved away for decades, scrutinizing every minute detail in her pictures, to find deeper connections throughout this deck. Even just a simple rock or bush placed in the landscape has its place and meaning that points to something less obvious at a glance.

Laurelle: Very nice! I had router problems today, and just now got back in here to digest what you wrote about this card, which has been quite interesting. Planets, Sins and also days of the week (with their source being of the 7 ancient planets) is something to ponder for certain. As I read Rachel Pollack's 78 Degrees of Wisdom, I'm currently reading her follow up to that book, Tarot Wisdom, which offers about 20 pages on each Trump card thus far. I will skip to the 7 of Cups in that book tonight and also review the first one for clues. I will also poke around to see what Eden Gray and Mary K. Greer have to say about it, if anything enlightening at all. It would even be more interesting if these offerings in the cups formed an acrostic with their first letters, revealing a single word of revelation that would keep us awake at night.

I've always been fascinated with this particular card, now even more so upon learning some of these possible hidden links.
Top   #28
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Say you are doing a reading for a client and she is worried that her husband is cheating on her and VII of Cups in past, future, or outcome comes up that says she is having illusions.....how would you interpret it.....relative to the message or images in the cups that says basically, she is wrong....maybe even neurotic....of what significance are the individual images in the cups ......
Top   #29
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Okay, for the first round of unbelievable speculation, I have a theory from Katz and Goodwin (whose information I normally do not trust or use due to uncovering way too many errors in their work). They state that "the strange symbols in these seven chalices are stages of the alchemical process, based on Michael Maier. The transformative stages of alchemy are categorised differently according to various authors, but often fall into a pattern as thus:"


1. Calcination - salamander (dragon - fire of calcination)
2. Dissolution - victory in death (wreath with skull cup)
3. Separation - treasure (sorted jewels)
4. Conjunction - castle (conjunction of all elements)
5. Fermentation - serpent (drunk reptile?? Explanation not given)
6. Distillation - divine figure (purity of distillation)
7. Coagulation - human being (the complete philosopher’s stone, the perfected human being.)

Perhaps I should consult Robert Place to try to make sense of this mess since it involves alchemy, though I don't know if he refers to the RWS deck at all. These two authors don't even know the correlating suits between the Tarot and playing cards, so I'm taking this information with a grain of salt (pun intended) as grand illusion, just like the card meaning. More researching for me since at least something wacky came up thus far, which might result in final truth with more effort.
Top   #30


 



 


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