Estensi Tarot-Lo Scarabeo's 'golden deck'

lionette

Mari, thanks for your explaniation that color differences may be a result of pigments aging. That idea hadn't even occurred to me! I remember the fuss about the Cistene Chapel restoration, but in that case I think it was a good thing.
Altho here, unfortuantely the original woodcuts weren't accessible, as in the case of the chapel where in essence the original was still there under the grime, so some of this "restoration" will inevitibly have the mark of Berti and Dworkin. And then there's the issue of different media - watercolors vs. whatever the ancient inks/pigments were.

I'll keep a watch on this deck -- I'm totally smitten with the Gringonneur deck (and quite a fan of Lo Scarabeo in general) and may be pleasantly surprised with the Estensi once it's released. :)
Keeping an open mind, despite my potentially fundementalist bent!
 

RiccardoLS

You will most certainly feel the hand of Berti and Dworkin. What You will have is at most an acceptable compromise.

Lo Scarabeo has done a lot toward historical decks, but has found that the "ancient" taste is a very low seller.
It's a marketing data that people - as a whole - don't care for any precise reproduction.
On the other side we found that deck of ancient origin that bridge toward a modern taste or reference setting, have a very good potential.
The choice was done a while ago: either
- stop publishing historical deck
- have them more in the direction of modernity
And the latter was choosen.

That's way You will find the Tarot of the master coloured, the Mantegna in Silver foil, etc...
That is way the decks have the names on the card and why they have (English-wise speaking) Chalices and Pentacles.

Whitin these limits (and we understand they are limits) we try to do our best.
The Estensi deck - I still have not seen the final result as it's in print, but I worked extensively on the graphics and the gold foil - is gorgeous. And it's whole.
If You don't project Your desire to expect it to be something that is not (a deck of fondamentalism fealty :) ), and You take it for what it is... a deck and a bridge toward the deck of the past... I think it will be a joy.

If the gold effect goes as planned... it will probably be the most beautiful gold deck ever done.

I know that Berti had done a huge work to provide Dworkin with all the documentation he could need... from that deck, from ferrara art, and from other decks.
I know also that he changed the Knave... as the "original" was not in line with the coherence of the deck as a whole.
And that's all...

I don't think some choices are the best... as the "one best way" does not exist.
Well, in the end, I think that thanks to these bridges, there are more people interested in the history of Tarot before 1909.
Just make sure you don't get disappointed because You were waiting for something else. :)
 

Cerulean

What a nice surprise!

Thanks for the notes. A bridge between the old and the new--that would be a fresh slant.

Since I enjoy the Golden Tarot for that and have been reading A Distant Mirror by Barbara Tuchman this weekend as well for a fresh take on old history, I think I'll enjoy this aspect.

Now I am eager as ever to see this...

Sincerely,

Cerulean Mari
 

RiccardoLS

I have seen the uncut sheet...
It was good. Not mind shattering... just gorgeous. :)

Ric
 

Aure

I am waiting eagerly for this deck! I love the look of antique decks but I have to admit that I like to wear them out myself...
I just hope the deck won't feel too precious to be used every day!

Have I understood it right that this is truly a complete deck as Visconti is lacking four cards?
 

Cerulean

Geez, what a tease...

Okay, it's gorgeous and we're awaiting....thanks for the feedback....sighsighsigh....

Sorry Aure, you might not have been able to read the details of the discussion...as a recreated deck, it combines the 17 original cards with new cards based on art of the time and place...the Schifanioa frescos circa 1470. So you are looking at 78 - 17, with 61 recreated cards. The mysterious artist Jo Dworkin, I have not heard of before, so all of us except Riccardo ,who works for Lo Scarabeo, are checking on scans in the online catalogue and the www.tarotgarden.com pre-release page news.

It is a kindness to receive tantalizing hints, but of course it is a tease, also. Still, a good tease is better than sad-sad news, which happens all too often.

Cheers and thanks for the news,

C.Mari
 

Cerulean

Alidastore.com-HERE!

www.alidastore.com

I'm excited and tapping my order away, away!

Ah, dearest aeclectic fans...if you do not wear cloth of gold, will you allow your tarot to flash it for you...and since the borders and main impression on the card are inks, perhaps the more sensitive to metallics may yet use it...

If there's not a link to the Schifanioa frescos available, let me know...it will enhance one's experience of the minors. The frescos are somewhat unique survivors for the time and place--actually a semi-private retreat of Duke Borso at the time, who while famous among Popes and Princes for an astonishing celibacy, was also astonishing to others for his cloth of gold hunting clothes...

The deck is just about my favorite half-romantic, half-historical topical topic...so I'm happy.

And Liber-T, is also available.

Best wishes,

Cerulean Mari

P.S...Who is Jo Dwarkin? I haven't been able to find the artistic work anywhere...
 

Cerulean

First glances

So far I found at first glance (Alidastore shipped it to me in 14 days):

1) All the 16 of the partial original deck as pictured in the giftbook by Christine Oleson have been delicately recolored and yes, I see slight differences in the ornamentation (for instance the interior cityscape of the Celestial City in the World card has simplified buildings and delicate trees on the terraced hillsides, while the faded card seems to have more complicated buildings). The Charioter faces a slightly different direction than the card, etc...

2)The slight borders, delicate numbering and majority of the softer coloring of the cream-colored card enhances the an effect of the painted figures being against a rich, subtle gold background.

3) I've spent a few hours with the deck and an out-of-print artbook of the Schifanioa fresco details. I counted about 23 images in the court and minors that I can identify fairly closely from the frescos in the cards.

4)I'm still identifying the figures, but roughly about 39 of the 78 cards so far are fairly close to the original historical art for me to match them from the original art.

Just as a start, if you need help understanding the frescos identified in the Warburg link, I'll post later...but as a quick guide, the surviving murals have three bands of figures. The small booklet and box of the Estensi Tarot points out in the minors that it makes use of historical astrological figures painted for Duke Borso. (Borso was recognized by the Holy Roman Emporer, but it was not until 1471 he was finally nominated/recognized as Duke who retains the same territories by the Pope ). The frescoes were painted in the Duke's private hunting lodge, the Schifanioa Palace.

In the middle band of each surviving fresco from March through September, the band is further subdivided into decanates or three periods for the month of each astrological sign. So below here's a rough list so far of the decanate period and the Estensi Tarot card chosen. The assignment is NOT listed in the booklet, although there is good use of Berti's notes:

March
First decan-4 of Cups
2nd decan-10 of Cups
3rd decan-4 of Spades

April
First-4 of Wands
2nd decan-10 of Wands
3rd decan-8 of Wands

May
First decan-9 of Wands
Second
Third-3 of Swords

June
First-5 of Cups
2nd-7 of Cups
3rd-6 of Coins

July
First-Ace of Wands
2nd-10 of Swords
3rd-4 of Pentacles

August
First-6 of Wands
2nd-
3rd-5 of Cups

September
First-Page of Pentacles
2nd-Ace of Pentacles
3rd-5 of Pentacles

I'm not drawing any conclusions, just hunting and studying at this point. If the deck had not engaged me at first blush, I wouldn't have spent this much time...hope this first take seems helpful.

Cerulean

P.S. I've other references in Italian and English with Giordano Berti's tarocchi commentary and respect his information. Sometimes the translations to English can seem slightly misleading in a few details, but at the moment I do not see anything that jumps out at me.
 

Aure

Is the deck available already? :) I thought it was due in august. I hope I'll find a way to get this deck because it is such a beautiful one and I have a thing for historical decks!