3 Three of Swords

rcb30872

I agree with HoneyBea and The crowned one, sure it is so simple to think of pain and heartache when you see a card where the heart has been pierced with anything. But, it is a Sword card, thus an Air card, which goes back to thinking, communication and the intellect, and the like, all the things that you associate with the Air signs.

You have 3 swords piercing a heart, so it goes to reason that when it comes to thinking, you are actually coming to the heart of the matter, like, eureka, you have hit the bullseye (if you were playing darts), you might be skirting around the issue, trying to come up with possible explanations and whatever, and then one day it is like the light has come on, it has finally clicked.

People go throughout their lives wondering why this and that happens to them, and then one day it is like they finally wake up to themselves. Then they can say something along the lines, oh, it is a pattern, it is not something that I have not done, it might be a different scenario, or with a different person, but ultimately it is the same type of experience. Once you recognise what is going on, then you can start to take steps to stop the pattern, so to speak.

Another way of putting this, I guess, say that you have friends that like to tell you over and over about something, then you don't listen to them, you get defensive about it, or you just plain ignore them. Because they realise that what they are doing is not making any bit of difference, they stop doing it. Then one day, it is like it dawns on you, like, they have been telling you something all this time that was right in your face, but you refused to see it, then you finally do see it, because maybe they have backed off, or the fact that they have actually planted the seed.

Another way of looking at this, is say that you have some sort of mental disorder, or some sort of addiction, the very first sign of recovery is that you actually recognise that, and be honest with yourself that you have a mental disorder or an addiction. That is the hardest bit to get to, but once you get to that, sure, it might be difficult after, but you are over the hurdle so to speak.
 

HoneyBea

rcb30872 said:
I agree with HoneyBea and The crowned one, sure it is so simple to think of pain and heartache when you see a card where the heart has been pierced with anything.

It is not that I do not see any other meanings in this card, my post was purely trying to see what Waite was trying to say along with Pixie's illustration — that is what I personally call studying Rider Waite

Just as a reminder here is Waite's words
The Pictorial Key to the Tarot by Arthur Edward Waite (1911)
Three swords piercing a heart; cloud and rain behind. Divinatory Meanings: Removal, absence, delay, division, rupture, dispersion, and all that the design signifies naturally, being too simple and obvious to call for specific enumeration. Reversed: Mental alienation, error, loss, distraction, disorder, confusion.

As you and others before have said there are many ways to look at and interpret this card, I do not dispute that in any way — but to me that is personal interpretation - I was just trying to get at what the Creators of the deck may have been trying to say — that's all :)
 

rcb30872

Yes, I can see that. I tend to see the card differently each time I use it, it depends on who I am reading for, and what in context.

Nevertheless, I still agree with you and The crowned one, HoneyBea.
 

GenoviaJ

I have not read all the response, but I have to agree that the traditional meaning does not suit this card anymore. As we evolve as human beings so does our understanding of the nature of our experinces.

With that said, I would like to put forth this ideaL

The three of swords represents the piercing of our ideas, idealism by our intellectual understanding. Mind body and soul come together to create the three, so it does support a coming together, but sometimes that merging of ones truth pierces the intellect or intellectual idealism that we have about things. This is weather those ideal pertain to relationships, work, or life. In the same vein I have seen this card come up more often than not to symbolize - delay, a meeting being canceled, a game being cancelled and simple things like this, therefore it again symbolizes the pierciing of ones, idea, ideal or concepts.

They heart only represents the heart of the matter, not emotions that is represented by cups, so I agree with others on this.

Now for those who are die hard believers of this card representing cheating spouses and heart break, or third party interference, ....please try to remember when Death, was actually thought to mean real death and not transformation- and with that bit of reference, lets just all work together to allow this card to "evolve" along with our personal experiences.

After all, ask yourself "what is heart break?" - in reference the origin of the design, - well heart ache or heart break is actually - the shattering/piercing of an idealism or illusion.

I will be so happy when more and more people are able to move past the black and white of bad and good and see all experiences as simple experiences. The things we experience on our journey is life are neutral, we are the ones who define them as bad or good. The experience represented by this card is no different, and its meaning is neutral as it allows for a depth of experiences concerning the intellect.
 

rcb30872

Very well said Genovia!

Well, another way of putting this, say books written by Aleister Crowley, A. E. Waite and so forth, was written AGES ago, yes, in some ways they are still relevant for this time and age. But, also, one must see the relevance that you can't just pin the meaning of what a card means by what someone written ages ago, you have to somewhat adapt to the way things are in the current day. No, I am not having a go at anyone, whatsoever, I am just saying that like most things, you have to have some form of adaptability as time goes by. For instance the whole witch trial thing that happened, is no longer relevant for today. There are a lot more things known about diseases and the causes of the diseases, and a lot more research and what not has taken place since, in some way that has to be somewhat incorporated to what was known then, so you have a mix of old and new, in a sense.

OK, I'm getting off the soapbox now :rolleyes:
 

HoneyBea

GenoviaJ said:
I have not read all the response, but I have to agree that the traditional meaning does not suit this card anymore. As we evolve as human beings so does our understanding of the nature of our experiences.

With that said, I would like to put forth this ideaL

The three of swords represents the piercing of our ideas, idealism by our intellectual understanding. Mind body and soul come together to create the three, so it does support a coming together, but sometimes that merging of ones truth pierces the intellect or intellectual idealism that we have about things. This is weather those ideal pertain to relationships, work, or life. In the same vein I have seen this card come up more often than not to symbolize — delay, a meeting being canceled, a game being cancelled and simple things like this, therefore it again symbolizes the piercing of ones, idea, ideal or concepts.

Your views of delay or cancellation are not really removed from Waite's traditional interpretation
Meanings: Removal, absence, delay, division, rupture, dispersion,


I will be so happy when more and more people are able to move past the black and white of bad and good and see all experiences as simple experiences. The things we experience on our journey is life are neutral, we are the ones who define them as bad or good. The experience represented by this card is no different, and its meaning is neutral as it allows for a depth of experiences concerning the intellect.

No one would disagree with you here, but as I said in my post above, that is personal interpretation, and for me this is a Study group of the Rider Waite and so one would expect to look at the traditional meanings of what this deck means — there is I think other threads available in which alternative and newer meanings of all the cards is discussed.

And so your suggestion that some cannot move past the original meaning is not necessarily true, but it is true to say that some of us DO like to understand what the Creators of decks had to say, why they illustrated them in such a way — as a creator of a deck myself I know that the cards I illustrate carry my own symbolism in order to deliver the message of what I am trying to say- this does not mean that they are not open to other interpretation or that I or anyone else who likes to study the cards in their original 'format' cannot or does not have the ability to see alternatives in todays light.
 

le fey

I don't know that it's either/or... anyone who has ever experienced a cut-to-the-heart of it realization of the truth of something has probably felt a bit of the painful heartache that goes along with it.

When we think something is so... a cherished idea or belief... and then face the reality that there is more to it than we thought, that's a loss as well as a gain. And it can hurt a lot to have to face reality when it doesn't match up to our perception of reality.

The pain is a byproduct.. the facing up to the truth of a matter is what's happening in this card. But the pain is still real, even if it is a side-effect.

In the old fashioned 'spouse is cheating' the pain felt here isn't just that you were cheated on.. its that your idea of what your relationship is...who your spouse is... who you are in relation to your spouse... has been proven false. You've been living an illusion you thought was real, and now you can see it for what it is. Hooray for the truth, but it still hurts to let go of the prettier illusion.
 

GenoviaJ

From reading your response I am sure that my point was loss in my own chatter. What I am saying is this: As human's we evolve in our own understanding of ourselves. We start off with simple understandings say - kindergarten- and as we mature in our understandings of selves, we realize that a seemingly simple feeling or reaction is much more complex than we were able to understand in kindergarten. For instance we understand that we are feeling sorrow- but we understand the dynamics of sorrow much more in depth at the age of 65.

Also the images or language (verbiage) in which we are able to express sorrow at the age of 5 vs the age of 65 changes.

So while I understand what you are saying when you say you attach specific meanings to your cards, I am also willing to bet that even if image on the card remains the same 15 years from now- 15 years from now you will have a deeper more evolved understanding and meaning, even verbiage for that card.

I am saying this, in the space and time that the card was created, the "verbiage" was limited to that space and time. Language tries to accommodate understanding, not vice versa. The language used to define a card is limited to the time and space of its inception.

I am saying this because I am a visual artist- and one thing I learned about words / language is how limited they are in defining what the artist is trying to depict. Hence we have many other areas of our humanity that are struggling, fighting and been torn apart by words- text- and interpretation vs understanding. We see this in all areas of life, from theory, to law, to religion, folks fighting and wrestling with words. So- to try to state what is meant by the card by the limited words traditionally associated with the cards is not just. To me the image reflects the concept the words are transient and simply used to narrow the meaning down, not encompass the entire experience. This is why as an artist I do not associate words with my expression, words tend to narrow down the understanding of the experience.

We experience something in the 3 of swords- but what ever we experience comes from the "intellect" and that is the basic meaning of the card.



I'm sure I by your response my
HoneyBea said:
Your views of delay or cancellation are not really removed from Waite's traditional interpretation




No one would disagree with you here, but as I said in my post above, that is personal interpretation, and for me this is a Study group of the Rider Waite and so one would expect to look at the traditional meanings of what this deck means — there is I think other threads available in which alternative and newer meanings of all the cards is discussed.

And so your suggestion that some cannot move past the original meaning is not necessarily true, but it is true to say that some of us DO like to understand what the Creators of decks had to say, why they illustrated them in such a way — as a creator of a deck myself I know that the cards I illustrate carry my own symbolism in order to deliver the message of what I am trying to say- this does not mean that they are not open to other interpretation or that I or anyone else who likes to study the cards in their original 'format' cannot or does not have the ability to see alternatives in todays light.
 

HoneyBea

Ok now I understand what it is that you were actually saying. :)
 

may baby

Interesting thread. I was struck by Starlover's post on p.1 - 3S = Honesty, and HoneyBea's take that it's intellect, clarity, cutting through the heart; tension sorted out to get to a stage of completion/growth/expansion.

I had the 3S come up two days in a row for my daily card, each day was a discussion with a coworker about clarifying feelings in our relationship which was unclear what might or might be going on or being intended, possibly getting out of hand. This card had me thinking things were going to end, or at least was a reflection of my angst/pain I was feeling. As it turns out, things are great and with the clarification we are moving on with a good friendship with much more emotional freedom and comfort. I see both Starlover's and HoneyBea's interpretations in this card now.

Also interesting, the main subject was making clear that we're friends, not potentially cheating on our spouses (not going there), so the usual/traditional is wrapped up in there too.