Masculine tarot decks out there?

x-man said:

The silence in the face of my posting above is very discouraging.

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Quite truthfully - after reading it I'm not sure we were actually supposed to respond to it. This thread is - after all - about tarot decks.

In another thread a poster had a somewhat similar response because no one was forthcoming to act like the therapist they thought we would to volunteer to be - and that is not the point of the thread(s) that was posted in, either.

Many people on AT discuss things in the public areas of this site that many other people would be hesitant to bare in such a public place, must less respond to.

Just my two cents ....

tarotbear said:

Quite truthfully - after reading it I'm not sure we were actually supposed to respond to it. This thread is - after all - about tarot decks.

In another thread a poster had a somewhat similar response because no one was forthcoming to act like the therapist they thought we would to volunteer to be - and that is not the point of the thread(s) that was posted in, either.

Many people on AT discuss things in the public areas of this site that many other people would be hesitant to bare in such a public place, must less respond to.

Just my two cents ....

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tarotbear, I tried to make it clear therapy was the furthest thing from my mind. I specifically said it was not a therapy hour, and in my 2nd posting reinforced that what I had in mind was strategies for accessing the feminine in so-called feminine decks. To be quite frank, if therapy were what I was after, here would not be the place I would turn to. I have noticed that in cyberspace, many people have a tendency to read into postings motives and things that are not really there. Perhaps I was getting careless, but this is a highly American site. When I lived in Europe I became acutely aware of how Americans would talk about the most intimate things in bars and such that embarrassed us non-Americans. I even made it a point not to speak English in such places if possible, so as not to be tarred with the same brush or invite an American to entertain me with a graphic and loud story of their sexual encounter the previous night--of course in gay bars it didn't matter.

BTW. Do I have to join BEAR411 to see jocksnkilt? I could not figure out how to scroll.

I think the most obvious advice is - don't read tarot for women. It really is that simple and I'm not being flipant in my reply. Do continue your tarot journey; and I would recommend one of the all male or all nature/animal decks that exist out there. There are quite a few really good ones. You said yourself that therapy is not what your'e after, so enjoy tarot without reference to women. The tarot contains masculine and feminine archtypes that can be expressed without any need to be so literal as to require "male" or "female" images.

duplicate post

x-man said:

tarotbear, I tried to make it clear therapy was the furthest thing from my mind. I specifically said it was not a therapy hour, and in my 2nd posting reinforced that what I had in mind was strategies for accessing the feminine in so-called feminine decks. To be quite frank, if therapy were what I was after, here would not be the place I would turn to. I have noticed that in cyberspace, many people have a tendency to read into postings motives and things that are not really there. Perhaps I was getting careless, but this is a highly American site. When I lived in Europe I became acutely aware of how Americans would talk about the most intimate things in bars and such that embarrassed us non-Americans. I even made it a point not to speak English in such places if possible, so as not to be tarred with the same brush or invite an American to entertain me with a graphic and loud story of their sexual encounter the previous night--of course in gay bars it didn't matter.

BTW. Do I have to join BEAR411 to see jocksnkilt? I could not figure out how to scroll.

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Hi x-man,

Just to bring things back to point and answer the question you are referring to...

I believe that emotionality and receptiveness are commonly expressed as feminine attributes, in tarot as well as in many other facets of life. Innermost contemplation (versus extroversion), nurturing, softness, and even the ability to be a "vessel" for new life are also all things associated with womanhood/the feminine spirit in the tarot and otherwise.

In addition, typically the earth (pentacles) and water (cups) suits are associated with the feminine as well, as opposed to the fire (wands) and air (swords) suits. The earth is a body that can be sown, and through which new life can flourish; water mimics emotional flow and receptivity. Fire and air coarse through the landscape, and mimic power and activity. These are all VERY broad interpretations of these elemental powers, but they can probably get my point across for the purposes of this post.

Sometimes the examination of these divided concepts can reach quite deep with much accuracy and insight in the tarot. Otherwise, such delving can be shallow in regards to gender and embodiment.

I hope this can help.

And just as a frank post-script...

If ever someone were to call me an "honorary man," x-man, I would take offense. I find no fault in being a woman, and so to insinuate that someone can be elevated to "man status" (i.e., become more trustworthy or understanding than a woman) is degrading to me. If you're going to call out the potential for homophobia, please take care not to border on misogynistic language as well. No one is at fault for the gender or sexuality with which they identify, and no one is any better or worse because of their gender or sexuality either. These are facts of simple human decency.

If this thread veers off anymore, I will report it to the moderators and possibly have it closed. I never intended for this kind of personal discussion in this thread--only a discussion of archetypes and the gendered "tones" of tarot decks.

I am not looking for a reply to this post, but I am looking for a prompt return to the original purposes of discussion in this thread. Thank you very much, everyone.

Not to mention the collective human experience is far more than gender binary. Traditional tarot archetypes speak nothing to people who identify as a third gender, an end in itself that's neither masculine nor feminine, or genderqueer people who may deliberately blur all pretenses of masculinity and femininity into some nebulous concept that refuses to lock on to anything at all.

I suppose thought that these might be satisfied with the Qabalistic notion of VAU, the Air or third energy that's a combination of masculine IOD and feminine HE but keeps them distinct, while Second HE energy, the Earth product of VAU's transmutation, is neither but something else entirely. But then, this assumes that the energies all rise from the union of Iod and He, with which many may disagree, especially since the process begins with Fire, IOD the masculine, as the superior element.

I've seen this in the Stained Glass Tarot which is a super heavy on the Qabalah deck, and to some extent in the Thoth and the more traditional Golden Dawn decks as well.

This is such a difficult question I think because 'masculine' can mean different things. For example, a lot of decks are labeled as 'feminine' but as I've considered them I've realized that can mean different things for different people. I consider 'feminine' to mean soft colors and artwork, lots of flowers, etc (think Paulina Tarot). Then again we have something like the Isis Oracle which is undoubtedly female-centric, but not what I would call 'feminine'. The same goes for 'masculine' decks...'masculine' vs 'male-centric'.

As for the original question, I'd definitely recommend The Steampunk Tarot: Wisdom from the Gods of the Machine. It's not overtly masculine, but it does show a number of men of different ages in the cards. For example, the 3 of Cups shows a diplomatic meet-up of three different men, and the 6 of Cups shows a male submarine Captain in his quarters looking at a framed picture of his family. I'm not usually interested in things that are overtly masculine (being a female) but I really enjoy this deck. It doesn't feel like it's forcing itself to be too masculine or feminine, but something more balanced in between.

Aeric said:

Not to mention the collective human experience is far more than gender binary. Traditional tarot archetypes speak nothing to people who identify as a third gender, an end in itself that's neither masculine nor feminine, or genderqueer people who may deliberately blur all pretenses of masculinity and femininity into some nebulous concept that refuses to lock on to anything at all.

I suppose thought that these might be satisfied with the Qabalistic notion of VAU, the Air or third energy that's a combination of masculine IOD and feminine HE but keeps them distinct, while Second HE energy, the Earth product of VAU's transmutation, is neither but something else entirely. But then, this assumes that the energies all rise from the union of Iod and He, with which many may disagree, especially since the process begins with Fire, IOD the masculine, as the superior element.

I've seen this in the Stained Glass Tarot which is a super heavy on the Qabalah deck, and to some extent in the Thoth and the more traditional Golden Dawn decks as well.

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Oh wow! This is some amazing food-for-thought. I'm currently studying the Thoth and haven't read anything about VAU until your post. I can see a lot of this concept at play in the Thoth's Swords suit now that you mention it. Time for more research

GlitterNova said:

This is such a difficult question I think because 'masculine' can mean different things. For example, a lot of decks are labeled as 'feminine' but as I've considered them I've realized that can mean different things for different people. I consider 'feminine' to mean soft colors and artwork, lots of flowers, etc (think Paulina Tarot). Then again we have something like the Isis Oracle which is undoubtedly female-centric, but not what I would call 'feminine'. The same goes for 'masculine' decks...'masculine' vs 'male-centric'.

As for the original question, I'd definitely recommend The Steampunk Tarot: Wisdom from the Gods of the Machine. [...]

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Exactly. You make a fine distinction in regarding the figures prominent in a tarot deck versus its overall tone.

On a related note here... I'm thinking now about my Tarot of the Silicon Dawn and its exchange of Wands' and Pentacles' respective elemental correspondences. Wands are creative foundation as represented by Earth in this deck, and Pentacles reflect the tangible nature of consuming as Fire. The deck is decidedly more on the "female" side altogether in its characters, but it's interesting to note these switches.

Also interesting to take into account some folks' comparisons of the Tarot of the Silicon Dawn to the Thoth itself. In tone, sometimes I feel that the Tarot of the Silicon Dawn is quite active and robust, like the more masculine attributes of the Thoth.

I actually find the RW deck and it;s close-clones very masculine. Yeah, I know it was drawn by a woman, and yeah I know it has women in it.

feynrir said:

Oh wow! This is some amazing food-for-thought. I'm currently studying the Thoth and haven't read anything about VAU until your post. I can see a lot of this concept at play in the Thoth's Swords suit now that you mention it. Time for more research

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The pattern goes: IHVH, repated four times for the four suits.

IOD - Fire - Wands - Knights
and
HE - Water - Cups - Queens
come together for
VAU - Air - Swords - Princes
which transmutes into
second HE - Earth - Pentacles - Princesses

I believe the Princesses are referred to as both ending the suit process and beginning the new cycle, which is why they're particularly potent cards. I also believe they're the only court types not attached to astrological decans, but are instead the "pure" essence of their elements. The Princess of Disks, the last card in the fourth and last suit of the process, is often seen as the last card in the deck and very powerful.

This is of course based on binary genders and sexual reproduction. You have some decks such as Daughters of the Moon, a feminist deck, that completely replacs the usual 4 courts with 3 of Maiden, Mother, Crone, and removes the Emperor and Hierophant cards, which it considers traditionally overtly masculine, absorbing their meanings into the Empress and Priestess cards, "returning the masculine powers" (book's words) to the respective goddesses, since male emerges from female in their perspective.

Sol Invictus the God Tarot turns the courts into a linear process of Awakening, Quester, Nurturer, Master. It's similar to the Thoth but embodied as stages of a man's life and growth.