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Profections


It was never expected that PDs could be exact and it seems that they were also used to establish the tone of a period. More than one event might be triggered by a PD and these might be seemingly quite different - for example a PD to the Ascendant by Mars, ruler of the MC might well bring career advancement but it might also bring a health problem, the need for surgery, or rashes or high temperatures - problems that would be associated with Mars' nature. It might even trigger some minor accidents (also of the nature of Mars).

The strongest PDs are likely to come from planets that are angular in the natal chart, or rule important houses or play a prominant part in the natal chart. Even these though may not manifest if there is no other supporting testimony from predictions.

Seventeenth Century Astrologers, such as Lilly and Morin tried to confirm PDs by looking at the results of other methods - Morin used Solar Returns and Transits, Lilly used Solar Returns and Profections (though I cannot see that he did not also use Transits). However it's Profections that I want to look at next.

Profections date back to Hellenistic times and may well predate Primary Directions. They seem to be related to the Greek idea of Time Lords (No, not Doctor Who!) that is planets which rule a particular period of life. Simple Profections take the natal chart and move all planets and angles (and the Lot of Fortune) forward by one sign for each year of life, following the first year. As there are only 12 signs, the process repeats every 12 years. To find your current Profections you simply add one to your age and divide by 12. The remainder is the number of signs to move your chart forward.

In my case I'm 62 which means that I'm in my 62+1 = 63rd year. 63/12 = 5 remainder 3. My birth Ascendant is in Leo, so my profected Ascendant will be in Libra (count forward 3 signs using the birth Ascendant as the first so for me that is Leo, Virgo, Libra)

My natal Sun is in Libra, so my profected Sun is in Sagittarius (moved forward to the third sign counting Libra as the first. All other planets and the MC are treated in the same way.

The Greeks appeared to have three systems. The first for Annual Profections as described above. The second for monthly profections, treating the month of birth as having the same sign as the Annual Profection. So my first monthly profected Ascendant for this year would be Libra, like the annual profection, the second month would move the Ascendant (and everything else) into Scorpio and so on. In practice it seems that the Greeks only bothered to profect the 5 key 'places' Ascendant, MC, Sun, Moon and Lot of Fortune for either years or months (or days which some Hellenistic Astrologers did).

Once the profection was calculated the Astrologer would look at the ruler of each of the profected places. For my case my Sun ruled Ascendant at birth has given way to a Venus ruled profected Ascendant. Vettius Valens has a variation on this, using as the annual ruler any planet that is in the profected Ascendant at birth. For me there is only one, the Sun. The annual and monthly rulers would give some indication of the overall tenor of each of the months of the year. If this tied in with the PD for the month then that was some supporting Testimony. So if you have a Saturn direction to the Ascendant in a particular year and Saturn is the annual profection ruler, that is supporting testimony that it will happen, probably in the month ruled by Saturn (or possibly Mars). Incidentally months begin to be counted from your birthday. The Greeks seem to have used a standardised month of 30 days for this exercise (allowing the Moon to complete its cycle of the zodiac and then catch up the Sun).

By Lilly's time things had changed quite a bit. Lilly acknowledges the possible use of monthly or daily profections but rather mockingly says that the time taken up would be disproportionate to the value of doing it. He uses a variation, allowing profections to move things forward 30 degrees during the year. At first sight this seems to be exactly what the Greeks did but whereas they simply did a sign change each year (or month) Lilly advances the positions pro rata in degrees, i.e. 2.5 degrees per month. If this involves a change of sign, then the planetary lords also change.

So my profected Ascendant is at 24 degrees Libra, so it will take my Ascendant about 70 days (Very approximately) to move into Scorpio by Lilly's method and Venus will give way to Mars.

Furthermore, Lilly starts of with all planets and points at their profected annual positions and then looks for aspects made by Ascendant and MC to the profected annual positions as they (Asc and MC) move forward 2.5 degrees per month (approx)

. It's possible to refine this to look for aspects to the natal chart or to the rulers of the five key places (which change each year). The movement of Asc. MC, Sun, Moon and Lot of Fortune thus provide timings for events. If those timings coincide with PDs (in terms of nature) then they provide testimony for the event happening. Profections without evidence from PDs are unlikely to produce anything. PDs without evidence from profections are likely to be greatly weakened or may not happen at all. (unless there is suppor form Solar Returns).

I must admit to not using Profections but for the purpose of this thread I'll have a look at some to see if they shed any useful light at all on the events of a year.

I'll do that in the next thread.
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another interesting post, need to sit down and read this one later.

thanks as usual minderwiz!
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Bill Clinton's profections


We listed three Primary Directions for Bill Clinton – Saturn to MC, Mercury to MC and Sun to MC. We will now look and see if there is any supporting testimony from his profected Charts. For space reasons I’ll just concentrate on the first and last of these.

The Saturn to MC direction was for November 1974, at the time he ran for Congress. If we look at Clinton’s profected Ascendant and Mc, for his 29th year we need to move his natal chart 5 signs counting from the natal positions (29/2=2 remainder 5) This gives an Ascendant in Aquarius, ruled by Saturn and a MC in Scorpio ruled by Mars. Two malefic in such positions don’t suggest a good year. Moving forward to November, the month of the elections and the Primary Direction:

Using the Greek approach, the PD in November and the elections occur in the third month of his year (Aug 19 = 1, Sept 19 = 2, Oct 19 =3), I’ve done this very roughly but even if we were accurate to the day, the events would still occur in Month 3. From Clinton’s profected Scorpio MC, month 3 would be Capricorn (ruled by Saturn). Mars for the year, assisted by Saturn for the month does not bode a good outcome. It also emphasises the Saturn side of the direction.

Using Lilly’s approach we start from the same profection but move the planets and points forward at 2.5 degrees per month (approx). In the profected chart for his Birthday the profected Sun is applying to a conra antiscion to his natal MC In November the profected Sun at 3 degrees Capricorn opposes his natal MC at 5 degrees Cancer.

These profections seem to support the PD for the year.

I’ll look at the PD of Sun to MC next This fell in January 1999. It appears to be good news for his career. This was his 53rd year so the profected MC is again in Scorpio and Ascendant in Aquarius – same pair, Mars and Saturn. Now that suggests that this year is not good. And indeed we know that it wasn’t in the sense that Clinton was facing impeachment. However this time we’re dealing with the fifth month, which puts the monthly profected MC into Pisces (Greek style) ruled by Jupiter. So the fifth month should be good. However as the trial went into the sixth month (Aries) that might suggest a return to a bad outcome.

Using Lilly’s system Mars retains rulership and there seems to be a clash here between PD and profections. However, if Bill Clinton’s profectional chart is relocated to Washington (where he was, of course living) the situation changes. The MC whilst still in Scorpio for his birthday and indeed the start of the trial moves into Sagittarius for the end. Jupiter takes over rulership of the MC just in time and Jupiter by profection has moved into Pisces, where it has rulership. I am not sure whether relocation should be allowed – though Morin clearly uses it for Solar Returns. For the Greeks it would be meaningless and I can find no example in Lilly. However one could well argue that the Ascendant and MC should be adjusted for relocation. Even without the relocation allowance, the profected Moon is on Bill Clinton’s natal Ascendant and of course the Moon rules his natal MC. The profected Sun is again in a loose opposition to his natal MC, perhaps indicating that his own actions have brought about the threat to his job.

Edited to add:

I should have said that for the relocated chart, in January 1999 the MC had moved into Sagittarius BEFORE the trial started
Top   #43
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Nik's Profections - Hellenistic Version


For the Hellenistic approach to profections I will use whole sign houses. I've attached a bi-wheel with the houses of the profectional chart shown and the natal planets in the outer ring.

The profected Ascendant is in Aquarius. Ptolemy would take Saturn as the Lord of the Year. Vettius Valens would take Saturn only if there are no natal planets in Aquarius (which there are not). The Ascendant is the most general indicator of the year, dealing with the health and activity of the body and soul. In the natal chart Aquarius is the tenth house. This indicates that issues relating to work may effect health, both physical and spiritual during the year (ending July 20th). Both Saturn and the natal Ascendant are in the fourth house of the profected chart. That throws an additional dimension into the situation. The tension between Work and home may have repercussions for health. Lilly adds that if the natal Ascendant is in the fourth of the Profection that might indicate a new house, some inheritance or gift from the parents, or work in or related to the mining industry. So if you are thinking of buying a new house or are in the process of buying one, be careful not to drain your health.

One of the directions for 2010 are to the Sun, so let’s see if there’s any supporting testimony from the profection chart. The natal Sun lies in the profected sixth House, ruled by the Moon. That’s good for routine personal and family work but is not particularly good for career or reputation.

The Moon was in exaltation in the natal chart, but has lost some dignity through profection, now having triplicity rulership through mutual reception with Mercury. The profected Sun has exaltation in Aries. I would interpret that to mean the profected chart supports the direction. The placement of the Sun in the sixth House mean that benefits are more in the personal life rather than employment.

The remaining two directions of hylegical places due in 2010 come after this year’s birthday and so need to be dealt with through the next profectional chart.

There is one further direction in the first part of this year and that is the Venus sextile to Venus, due next month. In the profected Chart Venus is in Taurus where she is very digified. That suggests support for the direction. Natal Venus is in the seventh of the profected chart emphasising her role up till July. As natal Venus shares the profected seventh with Saturn and Mercury, affairs of the Seventh will have been mixed since last July. (and don't take the seventh to mean only romance or partners).
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Profections the Lilly Approach


I must admit to finding the Lilly approach more appealing to my modern mind, than that of the Greeks. I've just spent a few days trying to iron out several confusions (mine not Lilly's) and think I now have a reasonable view of most of it. The only way to see if I do follow him is to try it out LOL

Lilly shares the view of the Greeks in one thing : 'Profections of themselves , without directions are not of much validity, or effect little'. but goes on to say 'Directions are less powerful and valid when they are contradicted by profections or transits of a contrary influence'.

There are two significant differences from the Greeks, firstly Lilly uses quadrant houses, i.e. the MC is the cusp of the tenth. Secondly he advances his profections by 30 degrees per year. Whilst this has the same annual effect as for the Greeks, it differs fundamentally in what happens during the year.

The Greeks used a monthly period of either 28 days or 30 days. Valens used 13 28 day months to equal a year. So in Nik's profectional year Month one is Aquarius, month two is Pisces, month three is Aries and so on. The month ruler is subordinate to the Annual ruler. As an example the Moon is in Aquarius in month one but shifts to Pisces in month two

For Lilly month two begins after 2.5 degrees of secondary motion (through the zodiac) from the birthday positions. So the Moon's position in the second month is between 2.5 and 5 degrees further on than it's profectional place at Nik's birthday in 2009. On her birthday it was at 5 degrees of Aquarius, so in month two it will be between 7.5 and 10 degrees of Aquarius. Indeed in Lilly's system he clearly allows for unequal calendar months, the 2.5 degrees being an average. He points out that the average daily motion is 5 minutes of arc, so he can be quite precise in his timings.

There is still some commonality with original ideas, the comments about the position of natal placements in profected houses made by Valens are still there, though as Lilly's house system is different the application my produce different results. For example in the whole sign system, Nik's profected tenth house is Scorpio, ruled by Mars. In Lilly's profected chart, using the MC as the cusp of the tenth, we have Libra ruled by Venus. That also applies to the natal chart where the whole sign tenth House is Aquarius but in the quadrant systems it is measured from the MC in Capricorn.

In both approaches, planets and points are square to their natal placements which is not a particularly good sign. Indeed Lilly explicitly says that years where the relationship is by either square or opposition, it's going to be something of a difficult year. Therefore good directions may have difficulty manifesting, difficult directions presumably will more easily manifest.

In my next post I'll try to apply Lilly's method to Nik's profections for the profectional years from July 2009 and July 2010. As Lilly doesn't give a detailed example, this will often rest on my own interpretations and if they are up the creek don't blame Lilly!!
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this is very interesting, already makes alot of sense, will comment further later.
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Detailed Profections 2009 - 2010


Profections for Nikki,

Overview July 2009 – July 2010

This doesn’t look a particularly good year. As we have seen planets and points are square to their natal positions. The Natal MC is in the twelfth House not a good year for reputation, career and status. The natal Sun is also in the sixth House again bad for both reputation , status and perhaps work related illness or stress issues.

July 2010 provides an improvement. Planets and points are now sextile to their natal positions and this should indicate a favourable year. However natal Sun and MC are still in the same houses of the profected chart (6th and 12th respectively) so the improvement is a qualified one.

Timings and issues:
Let’s advance the five hylegical (key to life) places by Lilly’s profectional rate of 30 degrees per year. We are currently looking for any aspects to the natal chart positions and possibly to positions in the profected chart. This could be extended to look for links to the Solar Return charts but for the moment we will leave that to one side.

Finally at the end we will try and see how this fits in with the Primary Directions.

Ascendant

The profected Ascendant is in the eleventh House of the natal chart Lilly sees this as ‘signifies a cheerful heart and ‘imports the year to be very prosperous in worldly affairs’ It ‘invites the native to bestir himself (sic), and husband time well whereby he may much advance his private fortune (personal luck and health). Now that seems very good but remember it is related to physical and spiritual well being, it is not related to work or other dimensions.

The Ascendant moved into Pisces from Aquarius on 8th December 2009, resulting in Jupiter becoming the Year Lord. In her natal chart Jupiter is well placed in the first house Jupiter is stronger in the profected chart. Natal Jupiter lies in the fifth House of the profected chart, so we may well expect fifth House issues to become more important. Pleasure, enjoyment creativity and children (if any) are the themes here. Jupiter will tend to lighten things a little – but bear in mind this is one positive change in a not very fortunate chart. We need to see other changes that wil facilitate the favourable directions.

On the 8th February 2010 the Ascendant sextiled the natal Moon in Taurus. This should have been a good time (assuming we don’t find anything adverse coming up) The natal Moon is in the fourth house of the profection so there should be an overtone of family or home issues, or other forms of real estate.

On 14 March the conditions changed as the Ascendant comes into opposition with natal Mars, in the seventh House of the profection. Stress here with other people. Natal Mars was in the fifth so fifth house may also be affected.

Lastly for this birth year, on 3 June the Ascendant conjuncts the natal 12th House cusp and this may well change the tone for the remainder of Jupiter’s year, if there is nothing to offset it.

The Moon
The Profected Moon is in the tenth house of the natal Chart this ‘inclines the native to be ambitious and seek preferment’. It’s also a good time to ‘follow his (sic) employment industry for it promises much increase.’

On first of August 2009 the profected Moon opposed natal Venus . In the natal chart Venus rules the Ascendant and is positioned in the fourth. Whilst an opposition involving Moon and Venus is hardly the same as an opposition between Mars and Saturn it may well show up as indecisiveness or being pulled in different directions. As this aspect brings together Ascendant ruler, home and work The Moon also rules the IC emphasising the fourth house relationship.

On 23rd August the Profected Moon moved into the eleventh House of the natal chat. And shifted its emphasis to eleventh house matters in a way similar to the Ascendant described earlier.

The next contact the Profected Moon makes is not till 18 May this year when it moves into Pisces, where in some systems it has Triplicity rulership.

The Sun:

The Profected Sun is in the twelfth House of the natal chart. This provides a contradictory view to the initial placement of the profected Moon. Lilly sees this as detrimental to status and reputation and a loss of influence or being sniped at by others.

Initially the good news is that the Profected Sun is in Aries, where it has exaltation. However on 20 August, one month later, the Sun moves into Taurus, where it is peregrine.

On 19th September the profected Sun reached the square of natal Mercury. In the natal chart Mercury is combust in the fourth and rules the Second (income and resources) and the Sixth (dis-ease, servants and pets). In the profected chart Mercury again rules the sixth and also the eighth. Accidentally Mercury is an unfortunate planet in this chart.

In October (22nd) the Profected Sun conjoins the Natal Moon in the twelfth House of the natal chart. This has in many ways the connotation of a New Moon and a fresh beginning. Again the Moon rules the natal fourth, so there is some issue relating to status, reputation and well being involving fourth house matters,

Last November there were two aspects from the profected Sun to the Natal chart, a square to natal Venus in the fourth (3rd Nov) and a trine to natal Mars in the fifth. Sun and Venus are of differing temperaments, and this might provide some tensions (remember Venus rulerships in the natal chart). The Sun /Mars trine might actually foster rash behaviour. Natally Mars rules the seventh and has intercepted rulership in the twelfth. Did anything manifest at that time.

On second April this year the Sun profects into the first House. This brings a real improvement in work prospects and good fortune.

The MC

The profected MC is in the sixth House of the natal chart, again this is not a good indicator for success at work.
On 7th October 2009 it squared the natal Sun bringing a tension between reputation, status and work. Accidentally the Sun rules the fifth House of the natal chart and the seventh House of the Profected Chart

On 8th November the Profected MC moved into Scorpio and rulership passed to Mars.

On 8th December the MC squared natal Mercury – a reading similar to the Sun’s square to natal Mercury

On 9th January 2010 The MC reached the opposition of the Moon. Remember that the Moon is the IC ruler in the natal chart. So we have yet another indicator of fourth House and tenth House tensions. In the profected chart the Moon rules the sixth.

On 12th Feb the MC reached the sextile of natal Mars. This should have a beneficial effect both because of the favourable aspect and Mars being the new MC ruler. Mars is however a natural infortune, and so there might well have been difficult side effects, either at the time or later.

On 20th June this year the MC will profect into the seventh House. This again should be favourable and may work through the agency of another person.

The Part of Fortune

The profected Part of Fortune starte the year in the twelfth House of the nativity. On 22nd October it moved into the first House. This is in the first House of natal chart and indicates ‘an apt time to gather wealth’ which might come unexpectedly.

It had no further contacts till 8th Feb 2010 when it sextiled the natal Sun The natal Sun is in the fourth and rules the fifth house of the nativity. This should mark an improvement in fortunes through activities of those houses.

On 12th March it changed signs to Gemini and rulership passed to Mercury who is profectionally weaker than Venus.

On 10th April it will sextile natal Mercury, followed by a sextile to natal Venus on May 26th. Mercury rules the sixth and eighth of the profected chart but here it might bring an improvement as Mercury is the ruler of the Part of Fortune.

Venus is the natal Ascendant ruler but also the natal eighth ruler. Hopefully this profection will be beneficial .

The final aspect is to the square of natal Mars on 16th June. This is a stressful aspect and natal Mars rules the natal seventh and has some rulership in the natal twelth.

There are two Primary Directions of importance in this year. The Mercury /Moon of July 2009 and the Sun/sextile of Sun aspect of February 2010. These are both favourable and seem to have supporting testimony from profections about those times.

I’ll leave it for Nik to comment on how far that turned out to be true and how far the other directions for the first part of the 2009/10 Directions and Profections actually manifested (if at all).
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The profections in the previous post were listed by significator, which helps to make the point about each one being progressed by 30 degrees per year.

In practice, of course, if they manifest it will be in date order. Moreover, as I understand Lilly, whether they manifest at the time or not will depend on whether there is a Primary Direction of a similar nature in force - Lilly took the Primary Directions as being in force from the time of perfection (the listed dates in the post on Primaries) until the next Primary Direction to the same significator, e.g. if Jupiter conjoins the Ascendant, on 10th January and Venus sextiles the Ascendant on 10th July, the Jupiter direction is in force during that six month period. Lilly believes that the direction is strongest and loses power as the period goes on.

So one task for Nik is to have a look at which directions come in force as the year progresses and how they may be affected by the profections or how the profections may be modified by the directions. Directions that affect career and work may be modified by profections that affect the same area and vice versa. Primary Directions are seen as the more powerful of the two, so make allowance for that.

I'm going on to look at Solar Returns next. I'd like to point out at this stage that I'm going to look at the traditional approach, as used by Lilly and Morin. I'm not trying to suggest that this method is better than that used by Dave, indeed, I have tried using his techniques and found them well worth the effort. However, here I'm trying to say something about the traditional approach, so please make allowances for that LOL
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this is all fascinating and i will get back to you asap with details, need to think about 2009, seems so long ago!

Nik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 214red
this is all fascinating and i will get back to you asap with details, need to think about 2009, seems so long ago!

Nik
No rush, I'll leave next year's (July onwards) till nearer the time, then you will be more able to see if they work out or not.
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