6-Week Wonders

I don't think that specific codes need to be placed on readers/healers, but I do believe that when a store owner hires someone to read for them, and when customers are paying for a service, cannot get their money back after a reading, then it IS up to the owner to make a discreet decision on how gifted/talented this person is to read for others. That reader is not just representing themselves, but they are also representing the store and its integrity, as well as that of other readers in said store. What if someone comes in for a first time reading, really depending on someone who knows what they are doing, and instead gets someone who is doing experimental practice runs on them and their emotions and choices for money? There is a responsibility here for both reader and the store owner. Yes, each store owner will have a different code of what is considered a "good" reading. But again, in the case I am referring to, she didn't do a reading for the owner. The owner just hired her because she was a friend. She admitted to this. She doesn't like conflict and therefore not sure how to approach her about the negative feedback without ruining their friendship. Now she is caught in a bad position and a lot of heads are shaking.

When I go for a reading I know I am taking a chance, but I have been in the tarot world for a long time and know there are both good, so-so, amazing and horrible readers. But so many people go to readers now instead of counseling (no, not the best of ideas, but they do it because it is more affordable) and I would hope they would be placed in fairly decent hands of someone who knows where to draw the line, who knows how to read the cards in whatever fashion suits them best, and does it with a professional attitude and not because they simply want to give it a whirl. Let them read for themselves, their spouse, friends, family, etc., before throwing themselves, unprepared, at people who actually trust in them and end up being deceived.

For the record, Nisaba, I did not get the impression that you were attacking anyone, nor that Joey was being defensive or getting overly upset.

We have to remember we are all from different cultures and different Countries from around the world........

Our laws are all different so I don't believe we could have a World tarot organization place regulations ......

Even each State in the U.S. are different just as each State in Australia are different........ each part of Europe are different, and New Zealand is totally different than the rest of the World...
Inregards to business permits, They do not guarentee the person with the permit are going to keep their business practices, standards updated and work with integrity...........
Just because someone is accreddited with a certificate in a practice does not mean they will work with integrity..........with the public......

I was going to write a long story about a reader who is accurate in her readings and clients sometimes need to go through her so they can move forward in some way....but I believe does not work with love and compassion, ego has got in the way......(Is she a bad reader?) She has left several clients, never wanting to go back, not because she wasn't accurate but she was, it was how she delivered the message.....left them feeling cold....
but deleted the whole story .... and rewrote a few thoughts instead....


I beleive there are skills that readers must have that go beyond just the Tarot.... Communication.... speaking clearly but with love and compassion and integrity.. when reading completed, asking the right questions.... but also listening after the reading has been completed.....
having other knowledge gives the reader extra abilities that can be called upon to assist the client further........(So maybe being a Skilled Helper would be a helpful part of the certification....)
Now i agree it takes a very personal journey to when you will be ready to take payment for readings, price appropriate readings.......... when you begin......you may take Koha (Donations)..... then may set up a small fee just to get you started then further rise your fees with your experience.... but that comes with experience and integrity... ( about being honest within self...) knowing if you over price yourself , people will talk and eventually you will get no clients......So this becomes not about anyone else but about WHO You are? Who are you? what makes you stand out? Not a certificate but your integrity.......Are you being teh best you can possibly be......

I understand where you all have differing veiws and respect that but I have to say.... if it works in one city or one state...........may not work in another..... the more poepple involved in making a decsions, less likely it will ever come to anything.......in the end if anything is going to be set up.... it is Usually no more than a dozen people who make the final result, a committee, a council.........who can have many hundreds of members who can vote.......on paper in a poll.........but only the 12 can make the final decision.....otherwise huge arguments, fights etc......(doesn't work.....) get the members to vote for the final 12 first...).....

So much to think about when given business permits or a certificate to a Tarot Reader.... What does it say about those who choose to work from expos and fairs only? or do the occassional gig, or work from home on the quiet, once in awhile....to add extra income..)?

will write more later have client coming soon.......

You know, regulatory boards are everywhere and yet the scammers of every profession still get past the regulators. They sail through the testing and then set up practice anyway. Regulatory boards aren't foolproof.

I didn't think Joermit was upset either. I thought he/she (not sure) conducted himself very calmly and respectfully.

Well, I was enjoying the conversation up to this point but am now reminded why I lurk... I'll try to be concise here so as not to come off as silly...

nisaba said:

I won't even address thne rest of your post - it's all along the same lines.

I think you're getting unnecessarily upset. You raise silly questions. A fortnight ago we all agreed that we should limit the activities of charlatans ripping their clients off, but the moment I THEORETICALLY propose a model for doing just that you all suddenly jump on me as if I'm threatening YOU!

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I'm not upset at all... I don't feel my questions are silly... I did not jump on you... I don't feel threatened by you... I wasn't part of the discussion a fortnight ago...

Nisaba said:

Are we, or are we not, agreed that good readers provide a valuable service?

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I agree...

Nisaba said:

Are we, or are we not all agreed, that in our own minds it is possible, somehow, to tell the good readers from the bad readers and rip-off merchants? If we can't, why aren't we all rip-off merchants (or why haven't we all hung up our hats and given away our cards)? An d if we can tell the difference between a good reader and a fraud, why can't an assessor, who after all, would be one of us?

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I can tell a good reader for me... I would recommend a good reader to friends... I've had friends recommend readers they felt were wonderful, that I did not jive with.... it's a matter of preference and style... I'm not a rip-off merchant because I have morals and ethics that prevent me from doing so... In my opinion as assessor can tell a good reader from a fraud for themselves, but because of subjectivity and personal taste/experience, I feel an assessor determining a good reader for the public at large is in noone's best interest...

Nisaba said:

Do we, or do we not, agree that it's not always possible just from a person's face of dress, for a client to tell if they are going to be competent before they start, or try and scare us into giving them "all our evil jewels and money that has ruined our lives" for their own profit?

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I assume nothing by looks... I take responsibility for my own choices and would never allow anyone into scaring me into giving them money and/or jewels...

Nisaba said:

It would be nice if some kind of universally recognised certification existed where a client would know before they handed over their money and sat down, that this person has undergone a very basic assessment process and that he or she is unlikely to rip you off and might actually know a thing or two about cards, might have given a valid and worthwhile reading or two in the past. Wouldn't it? And I say two words along that line, and I'm suddenly made to feel like a demon.

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I do not feel a universally recognized certification would be nice... I feel that I shoud assess whom is or isn't a good reader for me and take personal responsibility for my actions... I would certainly, before having a reading with someone, verify that a person knows a thing or two about cards, has given a worthwhile reading or two... I made no attempt to make you feel like a demon...

Nisaba said:

I AM NOT ATTACKING ANYONE!

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Didn't say you were....

Joey

Grizabella said:

You know, regulatory boards are everywhere and yet the scammers of every profession still get past the regulators. They sail through the testing and then set up practice anyway. Regulatory boards aren't foolproof.

I didn't think Joermit was upset either. I thought he/she (not sure) conducted himself very calmly and respectfully.

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I'm a guy...lol

yes.......I think it is important to remember that scammers always find a way to get through the system unfortunately.. that is why really it should be about how each and everyone one of us can moniter ourselves, We should be saying not how can I regulate others but how I can regulate myself..........

With that when i do a reading..... I ask my clients a few quick questions after the reading.......

1) Do you think I answered all your questions you wanted answered?

2) Do you think I helped you in finding solutions, answers to any problems you are having?

3)Are you leaving here happy with the reading? and how I completed your reading?

4)Is there anything I can improve on in how I deal with a Client and in doing the reading?

5) Is the pricing structure I use suitable to a wide range of Clients?

6) Would you return for a reading in 6 months for an update or sooner?

This gives me ideas of where I can improve and whether I have a client that likes the way I read or not and whether they will return or not for an updated reading.......so I think It truly is about self-regulation........

that is how any business that wants to get ahead in life.... stand out from the rest of the crowd does it.....

just some thoughts that work for me............

Vesta

I do not believe in regulations. I think that is the part of tarot that i like. You never know what you are going to get. A good reader or a bad reader. It is very subjective. Someone could easily say someone of 20 years is a bad reader because maybe they had an off day or they just did not like what was said.

There are certain professions that require certifications. Doctors, lawyers etc...

Tarot is not one of them. Once you start demanding this and that it just reminds of the public education system...That is way downhill because of all the standardized tests that are being forced upon our children. There are many people out there who have gone to homeschooling or un-schooling because of this. There are bad teachers who have ceritifications that could not give a rats butt about teaching, not saying there should not be a certification just pointing out it does not mean the person is good.

People have to make decisions on there own merits.

The charm of tarot is the mysteriousness of it all, it would not be considered "evil" or magical if there was a ceritification involved. Now the not evil part would be great but losing the magical part of it all... That would be a shame.

Plus some people can just naturallly tell you stuff just picking up a deck. Just in born talent or whatever you call it..

Plus if you do a certification are you going to force everyone to have to learn by one deck when some of us can not read by some of what i call the ugly decks out there lol. I am a picky tarot deck person.

Basically getting a certification would ruin tarot for many many people. I wouldnt bother getting a certification and probably black market or bootleg it my way.. it is not going to force people to not read if they are new. You just make it all more secret and take a lot of the fun out of it.

I just personally think it is a really bad idea. If you dont like the tarot reader go to another. Just like a doctor. You dont like that doctor get a 2nd opinion.

I realize I never really commented on the topic that began this thread.... sorry!

ResilientWench said:

We have a phenomenon in the dance world called "6-Week Wonders", where someone who has taken dance for 1 session (often 6 weeks) starts giving dance classes and calls him/herself a "teacher". This, to the chagrin of many instructors who have studied years before evening considering teaching or performing.

I understand that reading is a highly intuitive practice and some may possess a high level of comprehension of the cards that may enable him or her to give readings relatively early on in their experiences with the cards, and charge for it. Just as there are some exceptionally gifted dancers who can start teaching and performing after a very short amount of time, compared to others.

I wondered if there was such a thing in the world of professional* tarot readers and your attitudes toward this?

(*Charging for readings.)

Thanks for your thoughts!

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Some of my very favorite readings are from a friend of mine whom I occasionally read for... as she's a close friend and we've come to an agreement that everytime I read for her, she has to read for me as payment... she reads for me with whatever deck I used for her reading... she does not own her own deck... she has never read or studied tarot or any divination... sometimes she sees a card for the first time and has to spend a minute thinking about what to say... I've basically just got her to lay the cards down and tell me what she sees and tell me a story about me... she's given me some of the best readings I've ever had...

I now do this with all of my close friends whom I read for... their payment is a reading in return... so, in a sense I'm paying them my going rate for a reading when they read for me... it's really an amazing experience.... I've been dumbfounded by how profound and insightful their readings have been....

I imagine if some of my friends studied the tarot for six weeks and got their own decks, that they would be great readers who I'd pay to read for me...

I think there's a time and place for everything and everyone... there is something very magical about a new reader though... when their intention is pure and the excitment is there... it's really just cool!!

Joey

nisaba said:

So, if you have no way of telling who can and can't read, how will you be able to tell who the charlatans are? you can't possibly call anybody a charlatan if you can't possibly call anyone a competent reader, and that's what you just said.

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There are easy ways to tell a charlatan from someone who isn't... they are in it for the money ONLY. They are the ones charging $100s of dollars to remove "curses" and "negative energy" from people. Read the news reports on the Tans and some of the others who give our business a bad rap. You will see the pattern.

I don't support or agree with any of Nisaba's suggestions for testing, etc. here, simply because they don't solve the problems she is suggesting it solve. A charlatan could easily pass any certification or testing process that could be suggested... they do it all the time on Wall Street... and in any other business or field you could suggest, many of which HAVE stringent codes of ethics, testing and certification processes, etc. etc. The comment above seems to suggest that the only way to tell a good reader from a crook is whether or not they have a piece of paper or credential? That seems to be what is being suggested and it doesn't make anymore sense than it sounds like it does. In fact, the implications could be far worse... let's suppose one of the "approved" ones did go bad? Is that person defended because they have the paper or not? It would show the flaws that I am pointing out. Bad people with bad intentions can go through regulatory processes and look like they smell like roses... they BANK on it. The crooked would love to have something to give them credibility and make their jobs easier.

Education of the PUBLIC is the key to protecting the public. Bad readers will go the way of other bad business... out of business. If laws are broken, they will be turned in.

No one can put a time limit on how long it would take someone to be able to read for people. Maybe 1 day or right away... maybe 6-weeks... maybe longer. Who is to say? No one. We are all different. You can't test or certify or otherwise regulate what we do anymore than you can regulate what art is or what music is. Who is anyone else to decide whether someone who is a reader is a good one or not? In my opinion, only the client that is sitting before me has that ability.

Sheri