5th element?

Guiding Cauldron

Curtis Penfold said:
Makes a lot of sense, since the Lotus is a symbol of creating, of becoming aware, of making new things, something that is very unique to the fifth element.

Here's Brahma, the creator god, on the Divine Lotus:

http://www.artoflegendindia.com/images/images_big/pbaaf001_brahma_the_creator.jpg

He was the first thing that was. Very interesting to make that reference to Spirit...or maybe Consciousness.

Yes indeed Curtis; its a great symbol, the lotus, as a path for following to personal transendance. (sorry my rotten spelling, i'm getting tired lol) Which is what you hope to accomplish after studying all the suits and through each element.
 

Curtis Penfold

Guiding Cauldron said:
Yes indeed Curtis; its a great symbol, the lotus, as a path for following to personal transendance. (sorry my rotten spelling, i'm getting tired lol) Which is what you hope to accomplish after studying all the suits and through each element.

More than that (although that's pretty important...probably the most important purpose of Tarot), but the creation of the world through Brahma really emphasizes the one thing that seperates Spirit from the other elements: AWARENESS!
 

nisaba

Curtis Penfold said:
Of course!

Gosh, that makes so much sense. Is there a source for that? Is it a Golden Dawn thing?
Dunno. It's in a *lot* of Tarot books. It's in a *lot* of Wiccan books. It's in a *lot* of CM books. It's just general knowledge, really.

Curtis Penfold said:
Are there any other specific symbols? I mean, the Major Arcana has symbols for all four elements. Which specific symbols were designed to represent spirit.
It's different in every culture, Celts like the trefoil, reconstructionist Pagans like the Pentacle, Islam likes the Star-and-crescent-moon ... you name it.
 

Le Fanu

The Deva Tarot has the fifth element.

Also, Im reading Huson right now and can see the argument for the Majors as being essentially the fifth element...
 

Chanel

SunChariot said:
To the best of my knowledge, the King's Journey Tarot will have 5 suits when it is done. It is a 95 card deck that is not that far from completion. I'm looking forward to getting one myself.

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/kings-journey/

Babs

Thanks SunChariot! :)

Yes, A King's Journey Tarot will have five elements. The fifth being Spirit. Someone asked about what Major Arcana would represent the Spirit?. or at least, I thought someone mentioned it. In my deck, A King's Journey, I added two Major Arcana cards to be associated with Spirit. They are Daath and the Soul card. They are at different ends of the spirit element. You can see the Da'ath card on the front page of my website.

We ARE nearly complete, I'm happy to say. Actually, we are complete. Now we are working to raise the funds so we can get it printed. :)
 

Logiatrix

Le Fanu said:
The Deva Tarot has the fifth element.

Also, Im reading Huson right now and can see the argument for the Majors as being essentially the fifth element...
I checked out my copies of the 5th Tarot and the Deva Tarot. In both, the fifth suit represents the fifth element of spirit/aether, while the major arcana continues to represent the archetypal journey in which those five elements exist. Like Paul Huson, I've always consider the major arcana to be the "fifth suit", symbolic of the fifth element. I haven't diverted from that, but I can see an additional suit being a viable perspective as well. The different takes on it are intriguing to me.

Likewise, I'm eagerly awaiting the King's Journey Tarot...:D
 

SunChariot

Chanel said:
Thanks SunChariot! :)

Yes, A King's Journey Tarot will have five elements. The fifth being Spirit. Someone asked about what Major Arcana would represent the Spirit?. or at least, I thought someone mentioned it. In my deck, A King's Journey, I added two Major Arcana cards to be associated with Spirit. They are Daath and the Soul card. They are at different ends of the spirit element. You can see the Da'ath card on the front page of my website.

We ARE nearly complete, I'm happy to say. Actually, we are complete. Now we are working to raise the funds so we can get it printed. :)

I still can't wait to get mine. :grin:

Babs
 

Chatmauve

Fifth element as I see it.

I’ve been thinking a lot about this so called “fifth element” recently. Most people say that it’s the spirit and while I don’t disagree, I believe that there is more to it. The way that I see the fifth element is as a culmination of all of the other elements. You could call it “spirit” or “soul”, but I prefer not to name it.
Let’s take the suits of the tarot and arrange them around a pentacle as an analogy, as an example.
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/3088/12046259.png

Let’s say that you want to find happiness in the material world. You would look at the coins.
http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/881/61935811.png
However, coins alone can’t bring you happiness. The best salary means nothing if you hate the job. You have to love your job; you have to be passionate about it. That’s the cups.
http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/7929/87809912.png
But then, in order to get that job in the first place, you need to be intelligent, you need to be logical. That’s the sword.
http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/4540/81110561.png
Still, if you spend your life hesitating, even if you are the most intelligent person in the world, you will never make your move and you will never get the job that you wanted. That’s the wand. http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/7130/46883186.png
In the end, it wasn’t the salary that made you happy. It was the travel that did, it was the voyage.

It’s after all of that work that you can finally be happy, that you can finally be with the “fifth” element. Without using all of the other elements you would not complete a cycle. Your pentagram wouldn’t be a pentagram. The lines would not form a cycle.
http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/1433/78330838.png
However, being what we are, we never stay with that element for too long. We are never happy with what we have. It is the beginning of a new cycle, of a new pentagram. It is the continuation of a never ending circle.


Seeing that fifth element as a culmination of the cycle, I can’t imagine adding any cards or any suits to represent it. The closest to it, is your spread. It’s the reading as a whole. The fifth element is what the sitter come seeking when he or she asks us to read the cards; how to play the first four elements in order to close their cycle and reach the fifth element.

If I were to ever name this element, I would name it sky since people have been looking up to it since the dawn of humanity.


(I also find it important to say that I don’t see this "pentagram" as something flat, but more as something 3 dimensional.
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/8937/96718657.jpg)
 

kittiann

The major arcana card that deals specifically with spirit is trump 20, the Aeon, or Judgement (at least for Crowley, and I *think* for all GD stuff). It also represents the element Fire, but the two are considered similar enough to share a card.
 

souljourney

Just FYI, the creators of the Fifth Tarot are going to be doing a workshop and readings in Kansas City sometime in either Feb or March.
They attended our very first Meetup and have done workshops for us also. Amazing people!

Curtis... I noticed you are in Il, so not to far away if you want to join us.