Great post, Scion, and makes me even more enthusiastic about my Thoth, even though I doubt I'll ever reach Crowley's exacting standards. But I can try
Debra, as a former Thoth-sceptic myself, I can see where you are coming from!
Debra said:
I see the esoteric symbolism in the Thoth and the RWS both as a symptom of their elitism. We all sometimes take life only superficially, but to experience its depths--to actually appreciate existence in and of itself--doesn't require near as much hoo-ha as these fellas would have you believe. In my view, they were trying to erect, in the phallic sense of the word, an alternative to the immensely phallic Christian background of the time. When the Pope or some protestant equivalent seemed too restrictive or repressive or wrong-headed, their solution was: become a hierophant, intimate "mysteries" that only "initiates" can appreciate.
That's more than probable - it's certain, since they (well Crowley at any rate) announced as much. In fact he did found a new religion, which hasn't quite taken over Christianity, but it's only a few decades old after all
. What I fail to see is why this elitism is a bad thing. "Elite" has become a dirty word in our age. Possibly because in some countries it is associated with money and abuse of power. That was not the case in Crowley's age, when "elite" was associated when learning and inner value. Crowley was permanently broke, as we know, and had little in terms of power. Waite lived modestly off his translations and some small family independence. He had even less power than Crowley, who at least had a few disciples around him.
Their elitism is that of the mind and the imagination. Is that a bad thing? If that is so, then throw out all the authors and artists of that era - the Prousts and the Virginia Woolfs, the TS Eliots and the James Joyces - they were all elitist in the same way, set high standards and didn't compromise intellectually, aesthetically or spiritually. They were not catering for people who like to be spoonfed their literature, and Crowley and Waite were not catering for people who like to be spoonfed their esoterica. That's why I wrote it's not for everyone. Some people don't want to work that hard with their tarot, and even those who do take a break fairly often, with less complex decks! It's a choice we have to engage with that kind of intellectual-spiritual complexity, just as it's a choice we have to read Ulysses or To The Lighthouse. Rather than comparing the Thoth or RWS to post-modern literature, I would compare them to the literature of their age, which was experimental, synchretic - and complex.
With no offense intended to anyone, my personal view is that this is an intellectual scam. It's like much postmodern writing--lots of words, hard to understand, message seems complex but can be boiled down to something simple.
Why? Or rather, how so? What makes it a scam? I'm not saying you are wrong - I just would like to see in what way - apart from labelling them elitist - you see these decks, with their elaborate synchretic symbolism, as scams.
I also think rebecca-smiles is correct in saying that the "mix and match" approach to symbolism is off. Some things transfer and some don't; I can see this very clearly when I look at how much of the Christian iconography in tarot bypasses me completely because I wasn't raised Christian. "Yeah, yeah"--but a cross really does mean something different to me, and even when I think "renewal and rebirth" the cross doesn't evoke that for me. A phoenix does, though....or a seed.
Well, it's only off if you don't look beyond what you already know. I had no clue what Dorjes were before I picked up a Thoth (see 2 of Wands). I do now, because I went looking. Within the overall composition of the deck - aesthetic and esoteric - these symbols work together because they hit off each other, and build both momentum and power together, the way Ulysses' multiple references and stylistic twists hit off each other and build up momentum (if you hate Ulysses, this comparison will fall like pea in a well
). For all his ambition, Crowley chose symbols that have some relation to each other, and which, in his view (you might disagree), were universal in vocation. To come back to our famous Dorjes, though you may not know them because they don't belong to your cultural references, you will feel their power by looking at the 2 of Wands - and that was part of the plan in designing that deck. It is not just a collection of jumbled symbols put together any old way - it's a very designed deck: Lady Harris was using the principles of art from the Steiner school, which are meant to stimulate the imagination. That means that the deck can be used - for meditation or divination or magic - without having in-depth knowledge of the spiritual meaning of Dorjes (or any other symbol you might pick).
Of course the AESTHETIC experience of "feeling" or "appreciating" complex symbols and their relations may be of great value, as Fudugazi suggests.
Well, it's more than an aesthetic experience. To borrow from Jodorowsky, it is closer to the psychomagical.
But is there a greater truth there? I'm skeptical.
The truth can only come subjectively as you work with the deck. Of course, you have to be sufficiently interested or intrigued to go down that route in the first place.
Having said all that many readers regularly use the Thoth who are not big Crowley-heads or experts on Thelema by a long stretch (I'm not that either, btw!), and whose knowledge of symbolism is competent but not vast. They are simply smart and curious people, who take the deck on its own merits, and happen to be very good readers too. It's one of those decks, which the more you use, the more you get out of, including in divination - I think because it was so well designed by Lady Harris.
That said, for those who don't like the complexity - or the scam-like nature! - of the Thoth and the RWS and their descendents, there is always that ultimate working man's deck, designed over time by simple craftsmen to be a game and only marginally esoteric: the Tarot of Marseilles.
Rebecca - you might get some inspiration from
this thread, where LB details his struggles and ultimate success with a thoroughly unfamiliar and complex deck full of symbols and references he didn't understand when he started with it.