Why I'll still take a modern Grimaud deck over the others.....

Freddie

1. Not everyone in the Grimaud has blonde hair.

2. It does not look plastic or too perfect.

3. It is the part of the holy triad of Tarot....Rider-Waite, Thoth and Grimaud Marseille.

4. It is the Marseille deck used in most books on the subject, especially in Europe.

5. The colour symbolism is easy to understand and visually less confusing than the so-called improved decks.

6. The facial expressions are more true to the original Conver decks...some look grumpy, thoughtful, happy etc...

7. The pip cards feature the suit symbol in a large size with bold drawn lines e.g. see the three of cups or 4 of coins.

8. The colours are very pleasing and look magnetic on the white background. I have found the latest Grimaud decks to age very nicely into a very light ivory colour. The overall blue gives the deck a warm friendly feel.

9. It holds no fixed system of religious belief, so it is used by many different people in a variety of different ways. Witches, Christians, Atheists....

10. I think the only extra symbolism ever added are some dice on the table of 'Le Bateleur'. Hmmm... no extra bubbles, hands ,shoes, body parts, bees, better drawn lions.....


Any other ides or thoughts on this people? I am just sharing this as I have spent a small fortune trying to so-called get a better version of this deck. Besides the Fournier Marseille deck, which is a copy of the Grimaud with different coloured backgrounds, I grew tired of the other decks real fast.


Freddie
 

Richard

.........Any other ides or thoughts on this people? I am just sharing this as I have spent a small fortune trying to so-called get a better version of this deck. Besides the Fournier Marseille deck, which is a copy of the Grimaud with different coloured backgrounds, I grew tired of the other decks real fast.


Freddie
The Grimaud is my favorite and most used deck, for all the reasons you gave. However, I still think that ISIS and CBD are stunning, and I like to use them now and then for a fresh perspective.
 

Freddie

The Grimaud is my favorite and most used deck, for all the reasons you gave. However, I still think that ISIS and CBD are stunning, and I like to use them now and then for a fresh perspective.

I agree with you Richard and that is how I feel about the Fournier. I like those decks too.



Freddie
 

Yves Le Marseillais

My two Deniers

Hello Freddie and all,

I share you views about historical Tarot of Marseille decks.
In spite many efforts of newcomers I estimate that main problem comes from fact that very few specialists really knows what are Tarot of Marseille pattern decks.
Many of this decks are "hidden" in private collections or Museums in Western €urope and USA.
That why I decided to "do the job" and give a chance to passionates to really have a possibility to buy good facsimiles of them.
I estimate that a minimum of ten of this decks remains fully unknown by Tarot community up today.
I will publish this handful of decks in coming years (I started with Pierre Madenié 1709 and François Chosson 1736) and it will help people to avoid bad purchases and some "marchands du Temple" (Temple sellers ?).

I do respect artists who know that they are artists and create an artistic creation and sometimes I buy artistic Tarots like ISIS Tarot or Yoav Ben Dov tarot or Pablo Robledo.
I have a special attraction for Wilfried Houdouin Tarot project who is more a seeker than an artist for me (even if he has artistic talents) because I think that Tarot research is very poor regarding iconographic field.

Bases are bases and Grimaud deck was my first Tarot 30 years ago...
Now I have a more clear picture of TdM panorama and I will share this within our community.

Have a happy week :)

Yves
 

Kuroga

To be honest, I also think that learning a classic TdM first helps you a lot when going about other decks (be them RWS or Thoth - either Etteilla or Crowley).
 

dancing_moon

I love the Grimaud too, and I second every point you've listed. :)

10. I think the only extra symbolism ever added are some dice on the table of 'Le Bateleur'. Hmmm... no extra bubbles, hands ,shoes, body parts, bees, better drawn lions.....

I also love how many details, despite being 'clarified' as compared to older decks, still remain undecipherable and leave a whole field of possible interpretations. IMHO, by removing the ambiguity, the 'improved' TdM decks take away much of the charm and mystery of the deck.
 

Freddie

I like pretty much every traditional Marseille deck that I see, so I do not want anyone thinking I am knocking other decks. I just struggle to actually use these other decks that I have bought. The last couple of days I have used my Jodo deck as I find it quite pleasing to look at and I quite like the companion book by Alejandro Jodorowsky. Alejandro addresses this issue in his book 'The way of the Tarot' and he shares his experiences with being attached to certain decks for certain reasons.


freddie
 

DeToX

Why I'll still take a modern Grimaud deck over the others.....

I presume by 'others' you mean other TdMs? Rather than other historical decks? The former would make more sense given most of your comments.

1. Not everyone in the Grimaud has blonde hair.

Hmm yes but in Marteau's 1930 deck, nearly everyone has white hair. Some may not like the 'lazytown' look of some of the cards in the Grimaud re-edition but I think it looks alright.

3. It is the part of the holy triad of Tarot....Rider-Waite, Thoth and Grimaud Marseille.

True, although when we say 'holy triad' I'm not sure if you mean historically significant, most popular or most 'classic'/well known. Etteilla 1 and Visconti are not that popular but it's certainly a historically significant deck like the above.

4. It is the Marseille deck used in most books on the subject, especially in Europe.

More and more authors seem to be using Conver rather than the Grimaud.

6. The facial expressions are more true to the original Conver decks...some look grumpy, thoughtful, happy etc...

Hmm, not sure, I think some are definitely more jolly than the original Conver. If you look carefully at Conver, what could be interpreted as 'grumpy' is in fact borderline 'neutral'. Also, if we are using Conver as some kind of standard, why not just use a facsimile Conver e.g. Heron. I think it's my favourite TdM deck personally, although I do quite like Marteau/Grimaud. Conver isn't the first 'TdM 2' if you subscribe to this concept of classification either, that would likely be Pierre Madenie 1709. Marteau's 1930 deck is quite interesting because it is based on the 1898 Grimaud Edition Lequart Tarot de Besancon (with the Papesse and Pape cards modelled on Conver 1760 deck) - but the Lequart was as far as I understand was based on Arnoult's 1748 deck which may well have inspired Conver to some degree (taking cues from previous TdM IIs). So the Grimaud deck is both inspired by Conver and in a previous iteration, may have inspired Conver too to some degree (Conver drawing heavily on the Francois Chosson deck but to some degree the Arnoult as far as I can see).

7. The pip cards feature the suit symbol in a large size with bold drawn lines e.g. see the three of cups or 4 of coins.

Yes the lines in general on the Grimaud deck are quite bold and aesthetically pleasing. The lines on the Paul Marteau 1930 deck are finer, and presumably the Grimaud wanted to make the deck clearer and with more emphasis. Which is 'better' I'm not sure.

8. The colours are very pleasing and look magnetic on the white background. I have found the latest Grimaud decks to age very nicely into a very light ivory colour. The overall blue gives the deck a warm friendly feel.

The Blues are quite dark in the 1970s Grimauds onwards if I'm not mistaken. It's kinda hard to view some of the details in the blue areas IMO. It would take even an 80s Grimaud several more decades from now to really fade I would have thought.

9. It holds no fixed system of religious belief, so it is used by many different people in a variety of different ways. Witches, Christians, Atheists....

Hmm, I don't see how this is different for any other TdM deck, so why this marks out the Grimaud from another other TdM or indeed most other historical decks. However, some might argue it would not (completely) compatible with Christianity but I'm not going there (not really interested). I can see why this is why you like TdMs and or other historical decks. But it's not a Grimaud advantage.

10. I think the only extra symbolism ever added are some dice on the table of 'Le Bateleur'. Hmmm... no extra bubbles, hands ,shoes, body parts, bees, better drawn lions.....

Compared with what? Arnoult? Conver? This is more a reason not to dislike the Grimaud compared with other modern renditions of the TdM rather than a positive reason to like it. ;-D However, one could argue, picking up a historical facsimile deck would be even better in this regard! The other main change in the Grimaud was the 4 of Coins.
 

DeToX

The Grimaud is my favorite and most used deck, for all the reasons you gave. However, I still think that ISIS and CBD are stunning, and I like to use them now and then for a fresh perspective.

I agree that those two more modern decks you mention are very appealing.
 

Freddie

Well said Detox and everything you said is spot on.



Freddie