Rusty Neon
I'm curious how many of the 78 cards of this new deck are "originals" from the Estensi deck.
Estensi Tarot-Lo Scarabeo's 'golden deck'
RiccardoLS
If I remeber correctly there were 17 cards left.
The Estensi deck is the one that has been also called Gringonneur deck or Tarot of Charles the VI.
The remaining cards have been inspired by the Astrological frescos on Palazzo Schifanoia in Ferrara.
The Estensi deck is the one that has been also called Gringonneur deck or Tarot of Charles the VI.
The remaining cards have been inspired by the Astrological frescos on Palazzo Schifanoia in Ferrara.
Mimers
Rusty Neon said:
God has played an awful trick on you Rusty.
Cerulean
Tarotgarden.com just updated their site
and it has the information we posted here...thanks Riccardo, also for commenting! I'd enjoy knowing if the cards that J.Dworkin created also had some research from other Estensi decks...I do like the Palazzo Schifanoia frescos very much. It was the subject of my first Italian artbook that I searched online and bought after luckily happening on to some English language history and literature books of Ferarra.
Best wishes until we see the August release.
Mari H.
and it has the information we posted here...thanks Riccardo, also for commenting! I'd enjoy knowing if the cards that J.Dworkin created also had some research from other Estensi decks...I do like the Palazzo Schifanoia frescos very much. It was the subject of my first Italian artbook that I searched online and bought after luckily happening on to some English language history and literature books of Ferarra.
Best wishes until we see the August release.
Mari H.
Aure
Is it due in august now? Bad news for all of us impatient tarotaholics... Is there a site where I could atleast drool at the pictures? 
Cerulean
Please see below for picture reference
links to Lo Scarabeo Spring 2004 catalogue
and release dates of upcoming decks is listed below in this thread:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23084&highlight=lo+scarabeo
or you can go to the prerelease page of www.tarotgarden.com
__________________
links to Lo Scarabeo Spring 2004 catalogue
and release dates of upcoming decks is listed below in this thread:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23084&highlight=lo+scarabeo
or you can go to the prerelease page of www.tarotgarden.com
__________________
Aure
I couldn't get to the thread, it says it is outdated and doesn't exist...
Cerulean
Try this link
http://www.loscarabeo.com/catalogo2004/Catalogo_UK/catalogo.htm
After you get into the site, look to the upper left corner, click on Tarot.
Then to the left side, after Tarot is clicked on, the screen should have Gold and Silver to the left...I click on this and the listing for the Estensi Tarot should come up.
This seems to work for me. Let me know if there's other problems, thanks!
Cerulean Mari
http://www.loscarabeo.com/catalogo2004/Catalogo_UK/catalogo.htm
After you get into the site, look to the upper left corner, click on Tarot.
Then to the left side, after Tarot is clicked on, the screen should have Gold and Silver to the left...I click on this and the listing for the Estensi Tarot should come up.
This seems to work for me. Let me know if there's other problems, thanks!
Cerulean Mari
lionette
Hi Mari.
Just looked at links and did a comparison of XIII Death card between new reproduction on Lo Scarebo site and an image of original card <http://gallica.bnf.fr/anthologie/notices/00716.htm> (click on link to see giant size image)
Hate to super-critical, but I'm concerned that the new reproduction may have reduced detail, so much so that the facial features of figures below the horse look almost of cartoonized in comparison to original card. I wonder why the cards weren't copied more faithfully? (that is, if I can actually use the images on Lo Scarebo page as accurate reproductions) Also, the dark blue has been changed to a pastel? These changes reduce the drama and appeal for me of the new cards.
Hmmm. am I being a fundementalist??
Just looked at links and did a comparison of XIII Death card between new reproduction on Lo Scarebo site and an image of original card <http://gallica.bnf.fr/anthologie/notices/00716.htm> (click on link to see giant size image)
Hate to super-critical, but I'm concerned that the new reproduction may have reduced detail, so much so that the facial features of figures below the horse look almost of cartoonized in comparison to original card. I wonder why the cards weren't copied more faithfully? (that is, if I can actually use the images on Lo Scarebo page as accurate reproductions) Also, the dark blue has been changed to a pastel? These changes reduce the drama and appeal for me of the new cards.
Hmmm. am I being a fundementalist??
Cerulean
I think that is a great reply
What you are saying is this likely won't work for you in terms of historical accuracy, which is great to know. You want the aging and to see it as is, that's good.
I have no idea if the staining of age darkened the original blue of the cards from the 15th to 21st century, because it depends if lapis or other pigments were in the original. That seems to be the reason for some aging of colors. I've only read a little on the deck--as you have--that this is a restoration deck. But perhaps if the Lo Scarabeo people can answer your question (info@loscarabeo.com), you can report back?
I am very curious, as I've a vintage book published on the Schifanioa frescos in color that had just been photographed and finished their restoration. It shows aging, so the dark that might have been blue sometimes looks more deep deep blue-black.
The aged darkness of the blue in many cases had not been restored in the 1960's book I have of the Schifanioa frescos...it's odd because of the 1980's (I think before 1986) restoration of the Sistine Chapel resulted in stunning and pastel colors that made me fall off my mental chair compared to old art books that show a smoky, shadowy coloring.
But Michaelengelo supposedly also using such pastels as Pontarmo did...and I'm not certain about the coloring of artists of Ferrera, unless you count the unusual hints in some old or restored paintings where sometimes a brighter palette is hinted at in the following:
http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/t/tura/index.html
The August fresco, probably by Tura, shows lots of aging and hints of brighter colors...
http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/t/tura/schifano/index.html
Unfortunate for my delights in Ferarrese cards, I had to resort to finding two copies of Christine Oleson's art gift book and cutting out the mini reproductions to get something slightly close to what the cards look like. I actually tried to find other reprints and found a museum catalogue with a few slightly better color copies and a somewhat silly book on historical divination that I raided for color copies. I won't chop the museum catalogue and I hate the tiny experiment in color scans, so I was more than overjoyed to finding something closer than Brian Innes or Margaret Starbirds books with even more independent colorings.
Thanks again for letting us know about the color discrepancies. The cartoony aspect, I don't know how to answer, as I've not seen the cards. But some people prefer the Dal Negro Visconti for its aging and a more accurate brightness of what the card looks like now than restored the Visconti Gold. If you mean something bright like the Visconti Gold which can seem so shiny and cartoon-like in comparison to the Dal Negro Visconti, I can see what you mean. I am glad Lo Scarabeo calls the Estensi deck a restoration.
I think for myself, I want to check the deck out very thoroughly in comparison to other sources...and probably I'll go back and forth in my opinions...but mostly, I'm happy to have another thing to compare to my resources and then perhaps engage in a delightful discussion with others.
By the way, I've been reading the Sola Busca Tarot book more carefully with Giordano Berti's English introduction, etc. The cards examined by Hind in the 1930s were black and white engravings that were painted later, with sayings and other decorations added in, not original, according to Berti's reporting of what Hind said...which makes me sigh. People cite the deck as examples of cards in 15th century Ferarra.
Sorry to go on, hope it explains a little of my opinion. Take care and hope you have found better tarots that do address your delight in accuracy and color graces.
Regards,
Cerulean Mari
What you are saying is this likely won't work for you in terms of historical accuracy, which is great to know. You want the aging and to see it as is, that's good.
I have no idea if the staining of age darkened the original blue of the cards from the 15th to 21st century, because it depends if lapis or other pigments were in the original. That seems to be the reason for some aging of colors. I've only read a little on the deck--as you have--that this is a restoration deck. But perhaps if the Lo Scarabeo people can answer your question (info@loscarabeo.com), you can report back?
I am very curious, as I've a vintage book published on the Schifanioa frescos in color that had just been photographed and finished their restoration. It shows aging, so the dark that might have been blue sometimes looks more deep deep blue-black.
The aged darkness of the blue in many cases had not been restored in the 1960's book I have of the Schifanioa frescos...it's odd because of the 1980's (I think before 1986) restoration of the Sistine Chapel resulted in stunning and pastel colors that made me fall off my mental chair compared to old art books that show a smoky, shadowy coloring.
But Michaelengelo supposedly also using such pastels as Pontarmo did...and I'm not certain about the coloring of artists of Ferrera, unless you count the unusual hints in some old or restored paintings where sometimes a brighter palette is hinted at in the following:
http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/t/tura/index.html
The August fresco, probably by Tura, shows lots of aging and hints of brighter colors...
http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/t/tura/schifano/index.html
Unfortunate for my delights in Ferarrese cards, I had to resort to finding two copies of Christine Oleson's art gift book and cutting out the mini reproductions to get something slightly close to what the cards look like. I actually tried to find other reprints and found a museum catalogue with a few slightly better color copies and a somewhat silly book on historical divination that I raided for color copies. I won't chop the museum catalogue and I hate the tiny experiment in color scans, so I was more than overjoyed to finding something closer than Brian Innes or Margaret Starbirds books with even more independent colorings.
Thanks again for letting us know about the color discrepancies. The cartoony aspect, I don't know how to answer, as I've not seen the cards. But some people prefer the Dal Negro Visconti for its aging and a more accurate brightness of what the card looks like now than restored the Visconti Gold. If you mean something bright like the Visconti Gold which can seem so shiny and cartoon-like in comparison to the Dal Negro Visconti, I can see what you mean. I am glad Lo Scarabeo calls the Estensi deck a restoration.
I think for myself, I want to check the deck out very thoroughly in comparison to other sources...and probably I'll go back and forth in my opinions...but mostly, I'm happy to have another thing to compare to my resources and then perhaps engage in a delightful discussion with others.
By the way, I've been reading the Sola Busca Tarot book more carefully with Giordano Berti's English introduction, etc. The cards examined by Hind in the 1930s were black and white engravings that were painted later, with sayings and other decorations added in, not original, according to Berti's reporting of what Hind said...which makes me sigh. People cite the deck as examples of cards in 15th century Ferarra.
Sorry to go on, hope it explains a little of my opinion. Take care and hope you have found better tarots that do address your delight in accuracy and color graces.
Regards,
Cerulean Mari
