Help with understanding Morin?

RohanMenon

In Book 21 page 53 in my edition I have

"If a benefic follows another benefic in a fortunate house the resulting good will be certain to come and will remain stable."

what does "follow" mean in this context?

zodiacal order? So a planet at 5 Sagittarius 'follows' a planet at 0 Sagittarius?

It just seems to mean two benefics in one house. Except in the case of conjunction, if two planets are placed in one house, one automatically 'follows' the other correct?

Minderwiz

I think you are referring to Chapter III and the seventh possibility on his list of multiple planets in a house. If you look at the preceding point, number 6, Morin says that frequently two benefits or two benefits are found in a house, or sometimes a benefic with malefic. He goes on to say that two benefits always indicate something good, whereas two malefic always indicate something bad. Now this says nothing about the order of the planets. Jupiter, Mars, Venus, Mercury, Saturn meets in the seventh, meets hi criteria.

At point seven he specifies order. The two benefits are next to each other. So the sequence would have to be Jupiter, Venus; with no intervention of Mars or any other planet. The two may be in conjunction but they don't have to be. They simply have to follow each other in Zodiacal order and be in the same house.

His interpretation is somewhat stronger. Now the good is certain and stable, instead of simply 'always', the implication being that in the latter case, whilst the thing may always bring good, that good may not last or might simply be a little less than certain.

RohanMenon

" in Zodiacal order"

was the key part I was missing.

Thank You Minderwiz.

Yes you got it right about which part of the book I was referring to. There are two sections, and so two "Chapter 3"s . Next time (and there will be a next time ;-) ) I ask for help, I'll quote the chapter number and title!

Much appreciated.

PS: I'm really impressed by Morin's systematic approach to interpreting a chart (and the old approach to astrology in general) When I finish this book, I'm thinking of ordering his book 18 which deals with assessing strength of planets.

GoldenPhi

Minderwiz said:
I think you are referring to Chapter III and the seventh possibility on his list of multiple planets in a house. If you look at the preceding point, number 6, Morin says that frequently two benefits or two benefits are found in a house, or sometimes a benefic with malefic. He goes on to say that two benefits always indicate something good, whereas two malefic always indicate something bad. Now this says nothing about the order of the planets. Jupiter, Mars, Venus, Mercury, Saturn meets in the seventh, meets hi criteria.

At point seven he specifies order. The two benefits are next to each other. So the sequence would have to be Jupiter, Venus; with no intervention of Mars or any other planet. The two may be in conjunction but they don't have to be. They simply have to follow each other in Zodiacal order and be in the same house.

His interpretation is somewhat stronger. Now the good is certain and stable, instead of simply 'always', the implication being that in the latter case, whilst the thing may always bring good, that good may not last or might simply be a little less than certain.

Sun is occasionally considered as 'a malefic'
so when in conjunction with mars or saturn
would Morin consider that as "always indicating something bad"?

Minderwiz

GoldenPhi said:
Sun is occasionally considered as 'a malefic'
so when in conjunction with mars or saturn
would Morin consider that as "always indicating something bad"?

The Sun is not a natural malefic, though, the conditions of being 'under the beams and combust' weaken planets under the scoring system used from the late medieval period and still in use in Morin's time.

The Sun can be an accidental malefic (as can any of the planets), this comes from ruling one of the 'bad' houses - 12, 8 or 6. In which case any conjunction, opposition or square from the Sun could be seen as an affliction, and something 'bad'could come of it, even if neither Mars nor Saturn is involved. Put Sun as Lord 8 conjunct with Mars or Saturn and there is very likely going to be something bad resulting at some point in the person's life, possibly several such occasions.

Incidentally the medieval emphasis on under the beams/combust was stronger than in the previous Hellenistic period. They only used 'under the beams (±15 degrees) and any planet in one of its dignities was shielded from the negative effects.

GoldenPhi

Minderwiz said:
The Sun is not a natural malefic, though, the conditions of being 'under the beams and combust' weaken planets under the scoring system used from the late medieval period and still in use in Morin's time.

The Sun can be an accidental malefic (as can any of the planets), this comes from ruling one of the 'bad' houses - 12, 8 or 6. In which case any conjunction, opposition or square from the Sun could be seen as an affliction, and something 'bad'could come of it, even if neither Mars nor Saturn is involved. Put Sun as Lord 8 conjunct with Mars or Saturn and there is very likely going to be something bad resulting at some point in the person's life, possibly several such occasions.

Incidentally the medieval emphasis on under the beams/combust was stronger than in the previous Hellenistic period. They only used 'under the beams (±15 degrees) and any planet in one of its dignities was shielded from the negative effects.

Thanks Minderwiz - and just to clarify then:
Leo 12th house and Sun in 2nd conjunct Saturn, Jupiter and Mercury would mean the Sun is an accidental malefic in fall and with Saturn in 2nd also that would definitely mean something bad regarding money connected to the houses ruled by Sun, Jupiter, Saturn and Mercury - perhaps connected with hidden enemies since that's a 12th signification
But would Saturn being in exaltation mitigate Saturns harm at all? Especially with Jupiter present in 2nd as well? Or is Jupiter harmed by Sun and Saturn?

Also Mercury rules Ascendant/first house as well as 10th using whole signs, so that doesn't bode well either for career matters particularly since in this chart, Mercury is combust and retrograde

Help with understanding Morin?

RohanMenon

Minderwiz

RohanMenon

GoldenPhi

Minderwiz

GoldenPhi