78 Weeks: Four Deniers/Coins

jmd

To find out what these threads refer to, please seeThe link above provides suggested dates and links to all threads for this study.

Some amongst us may be working through the deck in a different order, and using different decks.

For more general comments or questions about the 78 weeks, please post in the thread linked above.

Enjoy!
 

Fulgour

This is one of those cards that always looks the same,
more or less, but then only on le Tarot de Marseille.

The suit of Deniers offers some geometric insights into
the fuzzy nature of reversals, and I think the artists
sometimes liked to make it even more difficult to tell
on certain of these cards, to wit: the 4 - 6 - 8 and 10.

Modern playing cards of the poker deck variety offer
some possible clues. Ace 2 3 6 7 and 9 cards will show
their directionality in the pip images for Hearts, Clubs,
Spades (unlike the rounded Deniers, there is an UP).

Oddly enough, Diamonds, the usual correlation to Coins
remain thoroughly ambiguous on just these very details.
 

firelite

To me this card has to do with physical order: health, tidiness, a time and place for everything.
But I admit it; this is one of the cards I never quite grasped that well, and would love to hear others´ insights on this.
 

CreativeFire

Four of Pentacles

Playing catch up again as running a bit behind in the 78 week study, but still going ;)

Four of Pentacles

Lots of different thoughts on this card. Hanging on to what you have worked for and not wanting to let go of things or resisting change may give a sense of security but it also breeds stagnation. Wanting to be in control of material aspects in your life, trying to keep things safe and orderly without taking risks. I see this card has positive and negative aspects, as on one hand it is sometimes good to save for a rainy day or build up a nest egg, be careful with what you have but by keeping things too close you may lose the adventure and ability reap the rewards of your hard work - you can't take it with you after all in a material sense.

Again on one hand it can be good to make the most of what you have today and want to keep it that way, but life is about change, letting go of somethings to make room for new things in your life. I even get a slight sense of fear from this card - fear of losing the structure or order in your life - almost hanging on too tight.

My version of this card depicts a lady in the safety of her garden, holding her pentacles close in her arms and looking over her shoulder.

CF
 

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ncefafn

I like the idea of putting things in order, but also battening down the hatches, preparing for potential disaster, building up your nest egg, making sure your foundation (home, financial, job) is secure.

On the negative side, letting fear and insecurity rob you of the joy of the present moment; letting fears become self-fulfilling prophecies; seeing everyone around you as potential threats to your security and becoming lonely and miserable as a result.
 

gregory

Four of Pentacles - Revelations Tarot

First impressions
Greed, and suspicion.

From the book
Upright

He holds on to his money with his life. Nothing is more paramount than the security it provides him.
The Four of Pentacles symbolizes the protection and stability one feels from his or her material wealth. Here matters of finances are stable, cash flow remains constant, and contentment surrounds you in the form of good clothes, a nice home, and a stable life. Comparatively, you are doing better than everyone else and you are loving it.
At work, your career path is steadfast and sure. Promotions are incremental, and pay raises are annual. You move up the ranks slowly but surely. In relationships, the comfortable pace at which it develops is embraced with a smile. Nothing dramatic challenges you, and the motion is a gentle sway.

Reversed
The money he has surrounded himself with has blinded him. He spends it only on himself and dances in his own wealth.
Here the miser has taken over the mind. You are overwhelmed by the need to secure your security. Nothing else takes as important of a position. Your obsession with money makes you anxious when spending or sharing. You spend hours assessing your worth and comparing it with others. You cut corners and save, never wasting any excess on others but spending lavishly on yourself.
In situations, this card warns of a debilitating need to focus on the cost and not the outcome. Financial gain is what remains paramount, and everything else, like service or quality, can be compromised. In relationships, it is all about what you gain from it and not what is gained together. The selfish, focused need for material gain will only drive the other person away, leaving you alone with nothing to show for it but your wealth.

Images and Symbolism
The piercing, glazed glare of the man is deathly cold and without a soul. He holds on to the pentacle with obsession and a fear of loss. It covers him and shields him from all.
The use of gold on his skin is scarce and limited, reflecting the ultraconservative nature he expresses.
The man on the reverse is driven to a state in which he lacks coherence. He spends because he knows nothing of value anymore. He is only driven by the comforts of his own needs.
In contrast, the color of gold is abundant on the skin of the man, which expresses his exuberant nature.
Color: somber colors and metallic tones, colors of Taurus.

Traditional meanings
Upright:

Material stability, holding on to what has been gained. Financial problems will be overcome, obstacles to success removed.
Reversed:
Over-centralisation of power. A refusal to delegate.
My impressions:
Upright
A man with an angry and covetous face holds tightly to a golden coin almost as large as himself. He looks over his shoulder as if he is afraid of being robbed. Behind him a cloud of golden coins, tightly converged.

Reversed
A rather cherry looking man seems to be dancing, almost, and juggling two massive coins. More coins are flying through the air behind him.

My take
The upright image seems to be clinging to everything. The coin in his arms is grasped obsessively; the coins behind him are almost magnetically attached to him. He won’t let anything go – money or life. A controller. But if you love something (even money) you have to let it go; it will come back to you. This one is a miser, and he will lose it all by holding it too tightly. Reversed – well, at least what he has brings him pleasure. I don’t know how long he’ll have it; he seems careless – but whatever he loses, he will enjoy in the loss.

I seem to read this card almost in the opposite way to the book. But really – the reverse image looks cheerful, and the upright miserable and overcautious. Maybe this says more about me than it does about the card ?

All the cards from this deck can be viewed here.
 

osami2717

I received this card in a relationship spread a couple of years ago. I went to a visiting reader...the issue was just too close to home for me to get an objective view.

Anyway, I was in essence holding on to this person/relationship and I needed to let go. Kind of like that poem...

If you love someone let them go
if they return it was meant to be
if not, it was never so

He was holding back going to school in a different state because he felt like I needed him. I was afraid that if he left, I'd never see him again [though I never voiced those fears outloud].

It was SO hard but I finally said goodbye and let him go...
I believe had I held on any longer he would have begun resenting staying with me, even though I never asked him to.

Likewise, I've had this card turn up for parents who need to let their children go and live their own lives. Letting them go leads to stronger more independent children.
 

gregory

Thoth

Card name: Four of Disks

First impressions

Seen from above, four square crenellated towers form the corners of a moated castle, which stands on top of an orange hill which looks for all the world like a very rigidly squared earthwork. Access ramps in the centre of each side, with closed gates at the base of three of them, in none of which the ramp actually crosses the moat, and a keep on the central front one which actually leads to a gateway into the castle.
Sigils of the elements on top of each tower, and those for the Sun and Capricorn on two of the ramps.

From the Book of Thoth

THE FOUR FOURS

These cards are attributed to Chesed. The connection between the number Four and the number Three is extremely complex. The important characteristic is that Four is “below the Abyss”; therefore, in practice, it means solidification, materialization. Things have become manifest. The essential point is that it expresses the Rule of Law.

In the Wand suit, the card is called Completion. The manifestation promised by Binah has now taken place. This number must be very solid, because it is the actual dominating influence on all the following cards. Chesed, Jupiter-Ammon, the Father, the first below the Abyss, is the highest idea which can be understood in an intellectual way, and that is why the Sephira is attributed to Jupiter, who is the Demiurge.

The Four of Cups is called Luxury.

The masculine nature of fire permits the Four of Wands to appear as a very positive and clear-cut conception. The weakness in the element of water threatens its purity; it is not quite strong enough to control itself properly; so the Lord of Pleasure is a little unstable. Purity has somehow been lost in the process of satisfaction.

The Four of Swords is called Truce. This seems rather on the lines of “the strong man armed, keeping his house in peace”. The masculine nature of air makes it dominant. The card is almost a picture of the formation of the military clan system of society.

As to the Disks, the heaviness of the symbol rather outweighs any considerations of its weakness. The card is called Power. It is the power which dominates and stabilizes everything, but manages its affairs more by negotiation, by pacific methods, than by any assertion of itself. It is Law, the Constitution, with no aggressive element.

POWER FOUR OF DISKS

The Four, Chesed, shows the establishment of the Universe in three dimensions, that is, below the Abyss. The generating idea is exhibited in its full material sense. The card is ruled by the Sun in Capricornus, the Sign in which he is reborn. The disks are very large and solid; the suggestion of the card is that of a fortress. This represents Law and Order, maintained by constant authority and vigilance. The disks themselves are square; revolution is very opposite to the card; and they contain the signs of the Four Elements. For all that, they revolve; defence is valid only when violently active. So far as it appears stationary, it is the “dead centre” of the engineer; and Capricornus is the point at which the Sun “turns again Northward”.
The background is of deep azure, flecked yellow, suggesting a moat; but beyond this

is a pattern of green and indigo to represent the guarded fields whose security is assured by the fortress.

In the Yi King, Sol in Capricornus is represented by the Second Hexagram, Khwan, which is the Female Principle. Compare the English word Queen, Anglo-Saxon Cwen, old Mercian Kwoen. Cognate are Icelandic Kvan, Gothic Kwens, woman. The Indo-Germanic type is g (w)eni and the Sanskrit root GwEN. Note also Cwm, coombe, and agnate words, meaning an enclosed valley, usually with water running from it. Womb---possibly a softened form?

Compare also the innumerable words, derived from the root Gas, Which imply an enclosed and fortified space. Case, castle, chest, cyst, chaste, incest and so on.

The primary radicle in all this class of words is the guttural. Observe the Hebrew attributions: Gimel, the moon; Cheth, Cancer, the house of the moon; Kaph, the Wheel; Qoph, the Moon, XVIII, Guttur, the throat. Sounds so made suggest the other throat; one is the channel of respiration and nutrition, the other of reproduction and elimination.

Images and Symbolism

Frieda Harris says in her essays:

Four of Disks = Power. Chesed in the suit of Earth. Sun in Capricornus.
The Disks are very large and solid, and suggest a fortress. This Card title actually reads, "Works."
card symbolises Law and Order, maintained by constant vigilance.
Also:
Four of Disks - Power. Sun in Capricornus. Chesed.
Four square disks engraved with the signs of the elements form the towers of a fortress surrounded by a moat. The design is intended to show the perfect government of the universe by law and order.

The disks shown are square, to indicate stability and reality – groundedness. That it is a living system is suggested by the elemental symbols on each tower – water, air, fire and earth. Banzhaf points out that the fortress shows the basic structure of the earthly city built in imitation of the “divine Jerusalem”. It symbolises anchored material energy. This can correspond to idolising our own reality, which is constricting, or it can suggest that while a model of thought and reality can be helpful, they should stay as models rather than being perceived as truth.
The structure presents the “wholeness of creation.”
Snuffin says there is an entrance on each of the four side. This is not what I see – there is a GATE on the “north” wall, but no way to reach it; the bridge stops at the edge of the moat, as on the east and west sides.
There are six crenellations on each wall – the number of the sun, and also on each side of each tower – though there they each “borrow” at the corners.
the southern, open gate leas to Malkuth, which is reinforced by the sign of Capricorn on the path – an earth sign. The northern path – marked with the Sun - is inaccessible.
the symbols for the four elements are stable – unlike the two, where they are in a state of flux.

Meaning (cribbed from Wasserman)
Power. Law and order. Gain of money and influence. Earthly power but nothing beyond. Success. Rank. Dominion. Skill in the direction of physical forces. III-dignified: Prejudice. Covetous¬ness. Suspicion. Lack of originality.

DuQuette
Gain of money or influence: a present.
Assured material gain: success, rank, dominion, earthy (sic) power, completed but leading to nothing beyond. Prejudicial, covetous, suspicious, careful and orderly, but discontented. Little enterprise or originality. According to dignity as usual.
Traditional meanings – From Thirteen’s book of meanings:
FOURS
Fours are ruled by the Emperor and, like both the Emperor and his throne, they signify stability. The first stage is complete: the invested passion, emotion, brainpower and work gotten past being young and fragile and is now rooted and strong. Established. This can be positive, a solid foundation on which to build more, or negative, something that has come to a halt and doesn't know how to evolve any further.
Four of Pentacles
A man holds tight to his four pentacles in this card. The man in 3/Pents, who got work, money, luck, health is, in this card, holding on tight to what he developed. He is not investing it or spending it or sharing it; he is not trying to get more work or add on a new room to his house. He is just trying to keep things still and unchanging.
This is sometimes called the miser card, but that may be too harsh a judgment on it. There are times when it's good to hold onto what you have and this card can be read as advice that there are currently no good investments, so hold onto your money, or that this is not a time to change jobs or take on new projects. Just keep doing what you're doing. It may even suggest that you don't talk about your work. A non-disclosure agreement.
On the positive side, this tells the Querent that they're in a position of status, health, money, even comfort. Business is good and stable, work is steady, money is in the bank. There is, however, a negative to this card in that the Querent might be holding on too tight. They might be too afraid of to spend any money, too afraid to take on any new work.
In the most extreme negative, this is the card of hoarders and packrats. Also the card of jealous relationships where one person views the other as their property and won't let them leave the house. This can be the card of the shut-ins and agoraphobics.
So while this card can be good advice to the spendthrift or shopaholic that they need to hold onto their money, or to the workaholic to not take on more jobs, it can also be the opposite, advising the miser to be more generous with good luck and good fortune. It is a card that can be telling the querent to enjoy what they have because holding still leads to stagnation.
(I include Thirteen’s meanings here, but the way, as while someone else was adding them to her Thoth posts, I found them enlightening in context, even though the descriptions are way different !)

My impressions (appearance of the card):
I REALLY didn’t like this card the moment I first saw it. It suggests prison, entrapment. It seems to me strange also that the orange of the ground is carried on inside the fortress walls; by my lights, the fortress is so overpowering that the inner courtyard should be greenish, like the walls. On the other hand the water of the moat and the shade within seem like relief from the orange desert. A matter of perception, then – as Banzhaf suggests.
There seems to be no feeling in the card at all – it comes over as very mechanical, almost.

My take (what I make of it/what I might see in a reading where I drew it)
As I say – being trapped. Someone says somewhere (oops; it was Thirteen !) that it could be the card of agoraphobia – and I can relate to that. The sitter is in a prison almost of their own making, and escape routes are limited.
 

jackdaw*

Four of Pentacles (Rider Waite Tarot)

First Impressions
This card came up once with the offspring, when she was about four. Not the Rider Waite one, I think it was her own deck (Hanson Roberts). Her first response was, “He’s not sharing the pentacles!” (pronounced PENN-tickles)

“No, he’s not,” I agreed. “Why isn’t he, do you think?”

Emphatically. “Because they’re all his!”

In modern decks that follow the Rider Waite tradition, this card is depicted by a person, usually male, clutching a large pentacle to his chest. One rests at the top of his hat or crown, and two more are on the ground with his feet planted firmly on them as though to keep them from blowing away in the wind. Some of them look fairly impassive or even pleasant, like the Rider Waite; others such as the Robin Wood are wizened and downright miserly. I like some of the more interesting takes on this card, like the World Spirit (a woman retreats from the community gathering with a pentacle held tightly to her and a suspicious look on her face), the Alchemical (a man buries four pentacles in the ground like treasure) or the Sharman Caselli (a man holds one pentacle and sits jealously atop a locked chest adorned with three more). However you look at it, it’s a possessive card. The card of a child who holds their onto their toy for dear life stating “Mine!” The Four of Pentacles is a card of people who don’t share. Who have their worldly goods, and by God they’re going to keep them or die trying.

Now, that’s not to say there isn’t good cause. It may be an unflattering snapshot of a moment in time for a generous and open-handed individual who is hanging on protectively to the one thing that matters to him more than anything in the world. His prized possession. But that isn’t the vibe that usually comes across. It’s like that of a hoarder or a miser. Not someone who hugs something tightly to them for the enjoyment or love of the object itself, but one who grimly clings to it just to keep anyone else from having it.

In the Rider Waite version, the man’s face is actually open and reasonably pleasant, although there is a grimness about the mouth. He’s richly attired in a simple golden crown, a deep wine-red gown with blue trim at the hem, soft boots and a black cloak pulled partly around him as if to keep him warm without obscuring the robe beneath. He’s sitting on a gray cubic block of a seat at the very outermost edge of a flat gray surface - another stage card; the delineation is such that we aren’t sure if he’s just inside or just hovering at the edge of the stage. Behind him a flat expanse of featureless gray sky; a cityscape is below him as though the scene takes place from the roof of a very tall building. One pentacle balances neatly atop his crown, two are flat on the ground under his feet. The fourth is before his chest; he’s got his arms curled in a curious way to hold it, so that he cups or encircles it with both arms. Not quite as if hugging it, but as if he’s framing it. Showing it off.

Creator’s Notes
Waite says of this card:
Waite said:
A crowned figure, having a pentacle over his crown, clasps another with hands and arms; two pentacles are under his feet. He holds to that which he has.
Gee, doesn’t sound so bad at all when you look at it that way.

Others’ Interpretations
Waite offers the following interpretations for the Four of Pentacles:
Waite said:
Divinatory Meanings: The surety of possessions, cleaving to that which one has, gift, legacy, inheritance. Reversed: Suspense, delay, opposition.
Waite’s divinatory take on this card really views it in a much more neutral frame of mind. However, I prefer Thirteen’s more rounded take:

Thirteen said:
This is sometimes called the miser card, but that may be too harsh a judgment on it. There are times when it's good to hold onto what you have and this card can be read as advice that there are currently no good investments, so hold onto your money, or that this is not a time to change jobs or take on new projects. Just keep doing what you're doing. It may even suggest that you don't talk about your work. A non-disclosure agreement.

On the positive side, this tells the Querent that they're in a position of status, health, money, even comfort. Business is good and stable, work is steady, money is in the bank. There is, however, a negative to this card in that the Querent might be holding on too tight. They might be too afraid of to spend any money, too afraid to take on any new work.

In the most extreme negative, this is the card of hoarders and packrats. Also the card of jealous relationships where one person views the other as their property and won't let them leave the house. This can be the card of the shut-ins and agoraphobics.

So while this card can be good advice to the spendthrift or shopaholic that they need to hold onto their money, or to the workaholic to not take on more jobs, it can also be the opposite, advising the miser to be more generous with good luck and good fortune. It is a card that can be telling the querent to enjoy what they have because holding still leads to stagnation.

Symbols and Attributions
Astrologically this card is ruled by the final decan of Capricorn. Capricorn, again, is an Earthy sign, and is also tied to the Devil. I think this is an important point in this card, as materialism is a pretty obvious theme in each. But Capricorn is more than that. Sandra A. Thomson says:

Thomson said:
Cards attributed to the sign Capricorn partake of its organizing, structuring, disciplined, hierarchical and form-building qualities.
And this is something else I see in the Four of Pentacles. The man’s need for order and structure to protect himself.

Numerologically the Fours are related to the Emperor and represent stability and structure. Combine this with the plodding, earthbound practicality of Capricorn and the Pentacles, and we have stability taken perhaps a little too far. The need for stability is such that it does blinker him to all else, that all is sacrificed to security.

The man sits on a gray cubic throne. As we saw in the Emperor, cubes are shapes of the most extreme stability. He wears a rich gown and crown that illustrate the extent of his material comfort, his own physical security. The gown is a deep red-brown; red of determination, brown of Earth. It emphasizes the extent of his will, but only as far as it protects his own comfort, his own position. The bright blue edge of the gown shows that while emotional and spiritual concerns are pushed down, while he tries to suppress them and wall himself off from the rest of the world, they are still present. All of this he attempts to cover up by a black cloak. In this situation black can represent an absence of light, of insight, of receptivity. He wraps himself up, or tries to, to protect himself. But it’s still open. He’s not completely covered.

Likewise, look at the way he clutches the pentacles to him. Two are interposed between his feet and the ground, one is held to his chest like a shield, and one caps him off to cover the top of his head. It’s as though his pentacles - his wealth, his money, his belongings - can shield him from the world. But can they? His back is exposed, as far as we can see - he’s wide open and vulnerable from the back to anything that might come by from that direction, from the city. Money can’t protect you forever, no matter how hard you try.

Others say that the positioning of the pentacles - and the city in the background - have other meanings as well. The pentacles cover his head and heart, and also separate him from the ground. He is letting his obsession with material security distance him from intellectual matters, emotional matters and earthly matters. And meantime, he’s turned his back on the rest of the world.

His arms are awkwardly positioned as he holds the pentacle to his chest. It bears some semblance to an ouroboros - that alchemical symbol of a serpent or dragon or similar biting its own tail and hence forming a perfect circle. It is supposed to indicate unity, perfection, much like the lemniscate. To me it brings to mind the lemniscates over the heads of the Magician and the maiden in Strength. Both of these individuals are strong-willed and independent, and I see the man in the Four of Pentacles as an extension of this. Control over his world is very important to him, and perhaps the position of his arms is a reflection of his need for internal control. The need to be self-contained, enclosed, is reflected by the closed circle of his arms.

The city in the background is more than just a reflection of the “real world” that is trying to impose itself on the man’s well-ordered world of his own making. It’s also behind the line of the stage card, and so is something we need to examine. It fades to the background in this card, something that is less important, less real than the here and now.

My Interpretation
I see this card as indicating someone whose need for material security and comfort is so great that it crowds out thought of all else. In his quest for security and stability, the man clings tightly to what he has, and works hard to insulate himself. He thinks he is complete within himself. The rest of the world fades to insignificance, pushed to the background. But try though he might to block it out, it can’t be ignored completely. Reality always finds a way to intervene.
 

RaaD

Symbolism - The four of pentcales/coins/stones - what we do see in the card in RW deck ( ill comment only this one ) is a person sitting upon 2 pentacles symbolyze the strong foundation he has based on his previous investments and profits which suggest that he has a very big wealth. Tho he is holding one more pentacle in his hand which suggest that he does not have any regards to use the meterial matter as exchange coin in everything and he heeds to sustain his wealth in order to keep moving forward. He sits outside his home upon the wealth uncapable to move anywhere and this shous his inner fears that someone can stole his wealth, so he is very very protective toward what he has. The coin above his head suggest that he has a good balance of his fortune ( he is balancing with the coin ) and if he make a step toward something he will break the balance of the coin and will lose any stability of his wealth

Upright Meaning - for me this card shows a big fortune. The card may mean a success in the business involving construction. The card also mean a luxory type of life. Parade with more fortune than you have aiming to look richer in the eyes of the sociaty. The card shows that you need to find a proper way to invest the recourses and the power you possess. The card may shows that you need to protect what you have. The card may mean that the dreams are too high to face the approval of the society or the co-workers or business partners

As a reversel - the card shows that you are aiming too low based on what you can achieve. You got the power and the energy to make success but you can not find the way to make the propper investment. By this you are painfully trying to keep the balance of your wealth which is causing you seatback.