1830 Carlo Della Rocca Tarot

DeToX

Has anyone got a copy of this? Thoughts?

I was looking through Mark Filipas review and concur that it seems like a later copy. I would add that some of the cards bear some resemblance to the 1880 Avondo Brothers Tarot., e.g. the valet de coupe (the face is a cross between that and the 1835 deck); le mat is rather cheerful looking in line with the 1880 deck; l'etoile - the woman seems to have a rather thin hairband as per the 1880 deck compared with the much thicker hairband of the 1835 deck. Also the card titles in French would suggest that the artist wanted to give it a French flavour or perhaps was a French native speaker. No Italian would do this. And lastly, the images contain more of the scene than the 1835 deck - this could go either way but I'd be willing to say that the artist probably wanted to see more of the images/scene compared with the 1835 and 1880 decks and decided to make them smaller and include more of a scene - in line with the other mods to French language, less nudity etc. It suggests someone is modifying the deck to their liking.

http://pasteboardmasquerade.com/Reviews/dellaroc.html

I can only go on the scans I've seen on the web but it looks quite pretty, albeit there seems to be less facial detail in some of the images. Tempting.
 

Sherryl

I have this deck and just compared it with the Avondo Brothers deck and Il Meneghello's 1992 publication of Della Rocca's 1835 deck.

This deck is very close to the Della Rocca original, and owes almost nothing to the Avondo Brothers. This becomes obvious when you compare the Emperor, and the suits of cups and coins. The Avondo Brothers looks very different than the other two decks.

Mark Filipas' scans don't do justice to the cards at all. This is a very lovely deck rendered in delicate pencil lines. The cards have a soft, almost misty look.

My deck is housed in a handmade cardboard box with a lid that's collaged with old printed paper, postage stamps, the Fool card and a red wax seal.

The words "inspired by" are crucial. This is someone's re-drawing of Della Rocca's original deck. I think Osvaldo Menegazzi himself did the drawings, but the French titles are a mystery. Even if he hired an artist to make the drawings, he would have control over the style of the titles. Perhaps he wanted to emphasize that this was not a real Della Rocca deck by supplying non-standard titles.
 

DeToX

I can only really comment on the cards I've seen on line, and there weren't that many, but stand by my comments regarding some of the details I mentioned above that seemed to be lifted or inspired by the 1880 deck. But I agree, the deck is very largely based on the 1835 deck. Your box sounds very nice. You really think Menegazzi drew it? I would doubt that - as presenting it as an 1830 deck would be effectively selling a fake. Exaggerating when you don't know if one thing, but knowing creating a 'forgery' and presenting it as an antique reproduction is quite another.
 

Sherryl

I don't believe anyone is trying to represent this deck as an original. Both the box and the included card state clearly that it is "inspired by" and "derived from" cards engraved by Della Rocca 1830-1840 for Gumppenberg. Perhaps someone who doesn't read Italian would just look at the names and dates and jump to conclusions.
 

DeToX

Oh I see! Maybe you are right then! Looking back at Mark's review, it is ambiguous as both sets of claims seem to be made on the physical card deck.

I was going by the wording on the web site, which identifies Carlo Della Rocca as the artist, so it's very misleading in that case. Whether it's simply not enough information rather than deliberately misleading I couldn't say!

http://www.arnellart.com/osvaldo/taro-cl-della-rocca.htm
 

Sherryl

After looking at Arnell's page, I see what you mean. It does give the impression that Della Rocca is the only artist involved with this deck. I'm sure it's just a matter of Arnell not supplying enough information.

If you're a collector, I would recommend getting it. I purchased mine in 2007 from Alida for $40 USD, so it's more than doubled in value since then.
 

DeToX

Yes I think you're probably right, although Il Meneghello took the trouble to link to Mark's review that speculated about its historical origins, who I gather still assumed it was still quite old. The retail price from the manufacturer has certainly nearly trebled in that time - but who knows what the actual market price is! ;-) I don't like to think of myself as a collector although I kinda am heh...regardless, this deck is still quite pretty from what I can see from the scans. If you happen to have any photographs of the cards available, I'd love to see them. :) Thanks!
 

Mercury066

It's a beautiful deck. I never saw a marseille inspired deck in black and white. It gives a very soothing vibe.
 

gregory

Yes I think you're probably right, although Il Meneghello took the trouble to link to Mark's review that speculated about its historical origins, who I gather still assumed it was still quite old. The retail price from the manufacturer has certainly nearly trebled in that time - but who knows what the actual market price is! ;-) I don't like to think of myself as a collector although I kinda am heh...regardless, this deck is still quite pretty from what I can see from the scans. If you happen to have any photographs of the cards available, I'd love to see them. :) Thanks!

Ask Arnell. She is a member here in her own name - Arnell Ando. I think a PM would reach her.