Le Diable (Devil) - how may it be read?

I have attached a copy from the Dodal rendition.

In a reading, it may be that the tethering against the pedestal becomes of central significance - implying also that one is caught against one's will to the binding of another.

It may also indicate that either of two extremes is preventing the pure Light of the spiritual from being perceived: here one is attached to the footstal of the Devil, to the physical realm - and yet not one to be despised.

The two extremes are at times described as the Luciferic and the Arhimanic - whilst the one wants for a warm immersion (often as though sexual) or abandonment to be called for, the other instead wants to retreat in the coldness of analysis and distance from the situation.

Whereas the former views those who do not participate in the same manner as cold and distant, the latter views the former as unreasonable and deluded.

The Devil may here thereby also show that what is being presented is either of those qualities, or perhaps that too much of those extremes is already indicated. Neither the complete assimilation through dissolution, nor the fear of the different and its ostracised segregated fixity are useful at this stage.

The mediating and transcending factor above each of these is Love and acceptance of the situation at hand, discerned in order for the bindings to be removed as tethering.

What a succinct and beautiful post, jmd, thank you. This is the first I have ever heard of "luciferic" and "Ahrimanic". It sounds like these represent opposing, or almost mutually exclusive urges.

Would the idea of "monstrosity" be pertinent to this card, I wonder. This funny devil himself is such a strange assemblage almost human body parts.

jmd said:

I have attached a copy from the Dodal rendition.

In a reading, it may be that the tethering against the pedestal becomes of central significance - implying also that one is caught against one's will to the binding of another.

It may also indicate that either of two extremes is preventing the pure Light of the spiritual from being perceived: here one is attached to the footstal of the Devil, to the physical realm - and yet not one to be despised.

The two extremes are at times described as the Luciferic and the Arhimanic - whilst the one wants for a warm immersion (often as though sexual) or abandonment to be called for, the other instead wants to retreat in the coldness of analysis and distance from the situation.

Whereas the former views those who do not participate in the same manner as cold and distant, the latter views the former as unreasonable and deluded.

The Devil may here thereby also show that what is being presented is either of those qualities, or perhaps that too much of those extremes is already indicated. Neither the complete assimilation through dissolution, nor the fear of the different and its ostracised segregated fixity are useful at this stage.

The mediating and transcending factor above each of these is Love and acceptance of the situation at hand, discerned in order for the bindings to be removed as tethering.

Click to expand...

I think that' only one view of XV-Le Diable. Being locked in extremes - but I find it limiting. We might see more in readings where he appears if we also look at him as a dynamic, necessary part of our human journey.

- As XV he can be viewed as a further manifestation of V (le Pape)- he therefore has an important initation/teaching role for us, one that will bring us in alliance with something we might fear, but that we must know to become fully human. In traditional numerology 5 is the figure of the centre and of union; 3 the figure of expansion and dynamic creation - multiply the two and you have a tremendously dynamic figure that brings us in union with our shadow, to what lies under what we have carefully constructed and which has a crucial role to play in the cycle of creation-and-destruction that make up the universe (and our own lives).

- Psychologically, as Devil, he can represent all that we hide from ourselves, our shadow, not necessarily "bad" but which we have, for all sorts of reasons, occulted from our consciousness.

- Spiritually he represents temptation and the necessity to meet temptation. All great spritual traditions pits man against a tempter of some description, and it is in this encounter that the spirit is raised, often after a voyage down below (I don't mean Australia ). We can link Le Diable to the Black Work of alchemy, dissolution and putrefaction, going down to the depths of the being. Because of his wings and his angelic nature, he is inevitably cousin to all the angels of the Tarot - including the one that precedes him, Temperance. But he laughs at Temperance and tells her all her careful mixing and matching cannot help man plumb his spiritual depths. After her gentle interlude, and fortified by her, we must meet Le Diable.

- If we study the card itself (I take your Dodal): the face sticking its tongue out on the stomach and head, the staring eyes, the breasts that look grotesquely like eyes, the very prominent genitals - all these are reminders of those grotesque figures on cathedrals - gargoyles, examples of the wit of the cathedral builders, and ways of conjuring fear. The card itself, therefore, could be drawn as a comic way of conjuring the fears that it raises. Fear of meeting oneself, of temptation, of the spiritual storms we go through from time to time. In the dark night of the soul, it is often laughter that will help us through.

- The two small devils don't look at all unhappy to be there, chained. It could be also that this card is about accepting a situation not of one's choosing, even accomodating it: something like the Tarot equivalent of the Stockholm Syndrome.

...as for the other threads in this series, it may also be worth checking the Index and the respective threads to add to the spice... in this case:


The Diable is also related, apart from the V/XV pairing, to the Pope by its similarity of iconography, and sometimes have mentioned that this card may also represent the structure, rather than the spiritual to which the structure is merely built as a means of pointing and directing (the analogy is that the fool looks at the finger, the wise at the moon to which it points).

... and I'll have to keep in mind that the voyage down below is not in these part of the sticks...

Stealing the Show

AT Forum - Quick questions about... le Diable/the Devil
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=24048

*

A devil's costume (13th century). Scaly, like the serpent that tempted
Eve, winged like the classical Furies, the devil has two faces, one where
the mouth is also the anus, and the devil's tail/tale a second tongue .

THE DEVIL

"He that play Belial, look that he have gunpowder
burning in pipes, in his hands, and in his ears,
and in his arse, when he goeth into battle."

Excellent takes. I, too, had not heard of the references
of Luciferic vs. Arhimanic.

Helvetica...good summary.

I am going to post the Noblet (letarot.com) and next to it the Hadar.

This card, is to me, the most comical one in the 22 Trumps in the Marseille style decks.

In the Noblet, the "breastplate" is red on top near the pseudo-breasts? and yellow below that (the section with the "face"). Sexual energy versus spiritual choice?

Since I come from a background of believing that the Devil is a creation of the Ego, I always have the feeling that this card is saying "The joke's on you, my friend!"

Also, in the Noblet the figures "chained" are half flesh-colored and half light-blue...which I interpret as our being composed of the physical and the spiritual, yet we are so
"animal" in nature that we often dance to the tune of what is appealing to us, alluring, to what calls us to excess and to our own self-destruction.

The tethers on the Hadar look "looser" than those on the Noblet and in other decks, they are clearly so loose that it is obvious they have no power to hold the creatures to the base upon which the Devil stands.

I see the Devil as representing our baser self, our Ego, which is of our own creation, since I believe that spirit, that which would be of God or of a higher power, knows only love and that, we humans, have "created" fear and anxiety and have the illusion that there is room for both fear and love.

Hence, the joke is on us.

The reversed right-hand of LeDiable almost looks as if it is giving some kind of gesture....as if to say, "What do you humans know anyhow??"

When this card appears, I look at the cards around it and it's position in the spread to help me determine the meaning.

I can see it as the need for us (the human animals) to realize that we have choice, that we have the power to vanquish and conquer all temptations.

I sometimes see it as a false domination over the sitter by fear, or by attractions to power or another person.

Sometimes, unbridled ambition.

Sometimes, I see the sitter as a person who has a very strong personal magnetism that they can use for the good or for endeavors that could be harmful to others.

This card, to me, has a wide range of possible "reads" depending again on its postion in the reading.

The sword in the Hadar card, held in the left hand, has no hilt...hence dangerous to hold. There are connections to the spiritual, but I feel that the poor Diable's desire to act is quite limited to the material as symbolized by the platform on which these "feet of flesh" rest.

Sexual energy is required for continued existence of life, yet using one's sexual energies through sublimation can channel energies into creative forces.

Gratification of one's passions at any cost is a message here as well. Be wary of wishing to rule, of wanting power.

In itself, I see this card as neither good nor bad. Like a double-edged weapon it can produce great success or be the implement or tool of destruction and downfall.

Ultimately, man/woman must rule over him/herself to be free from any powers that might enslave.

This is the card I love to hate.

It's the one in the Marseille tradition that brings forth a chuckle from my sitters the few times it has shown up.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/TBSLP/NobletLeDiable.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/TBSLP/HadarLeDiable.jpg

I see the Devil as beckoning to his followers and the fact that they are not perturbed, and are even relaxed shows a willingness to follow. Even though they are tied to him, I see the leash more as part of 'becoming one' with him, rather than keeping them from straying, this is also shown by them starting to look like him. But they are subservient, and are with him through having had no control or self discipline. In a reading this card relates, not just to temptation, but to inner turmoil or acting on impulses or to extremes.

It's interesting to me, that following the card of moderation and restraint, we are being shown the way of extremes. To appreciate one you have to be aware of the other.

It also sometimes reminds me of part of the story of Pinocchio. Where he learns morals in order to become a human boy. At one point he doesn't listen to his conscience (Jiminy Cricket) and is lead astray, eventually turning into a donkey and being taken to Pleasure Island....

XV- Le Diable - through Sex to the Spirit

tmgrl2 said:

Sexual energy is required for continued existence of life, yet using one's sexual energies through sublimation can channel energies into creative forces.

Click to expand...

The Noblet is a good illustration of this: the Devil’s genitals are light blue, the color of spirituality, except for the gland, which is red – passion and sexual action!

One could equally say that this image shows that sex can be a way to reach a spiritual dimension, as in Tantric practice. Sex has become debased and seprated from spirit in Western society: because we have abused it, out of a mistaken view that to cure the repression of our fathers we must seek surfeit and indiscrimination, which are, in fact, the very opposite of eroticism. Few things will attack Ego more powerfully than the sexual act – especially the very moment of orgasm, when we literally “lose ourselves” and our spirit can reach out to the spirit of the other. In a reading, the Devil can point us to that: and will also show us that if we do not let go, if we insist on staying chained to our own ego, then we will find neither sexual pleasure, nor its sublimation into spirit.

So the Devil could also be telling the sitter to let go, sexually – to trust the other and spirit. To let the Ego be killed (even if only momentarily). Or receiving the card could be saying to be more discriminating sexually, not to debase the act of love but use it to reach the spirit of the other, and beyond – the Divine.

tmgrl2 said:

In itself, I see this card as neither good nor bad. Like a double-edged weapon it can produce great success or be the implement or tool of destruction and downfall.

Click to expand...

I quite agree. It is such a powerful card! And like all sources of power, to be used wisely. I once received it in a reading done by someone else. At the time I was locked in the aftermath of a very passionate relationship which had ended abruptly when the man’s mother died. The reader told me I had surrendered my power to what was originally a good impulse – compassion for my lover. But it was locking me in, and stopping me from reaching closure through all the normal mourning stages. Once I had regained my own power, and was able to express my own sadness and anger – then, later, was also able to feel empathy for him, and in time, we became friends.

I also think it a very funny card, especially those that have faces on the stomach. Probably that was a conscious decision on the part of the craftsman: for we face our fears better when we laugh at them. Satan can stand everything except being mocked. So the message to the sitter here could be – laugh at your fears, they contain the seed of what will destroy them – a joke. When we are caught up in extremes and obsessions, in ambition and lust for power, we forget to laugh; and when faced with someone who is locked in such a way, laughing at them is the best way to defeat them (or rather, to defeat what is eating at them).

Fine elaborations, Helvetica...

I especially liked how you extended the idea of sexual energy into its positive aspect.

Also, I do believe that sometimes laughing at ourselves, our fears, our obsessions, our worries, is quite the best medicine.

It's like laughing in the face of Le Diable and saying, "No way, am I going to let negativity rule me!"

terri