oldest known tarot deck - can anybody tell me?

A warm welcome to Aeclectic, Huck...

For those of us who, unfortunately, do not read German, here is the Wilhem translation of the same text:

• A crane calling in the shade.
  Its young answers it.
  I have a good goblet.
  I will share it with you.

This is a beautiful hexagramme to reflect on...

Re: Versions of the Visconti Gold

Mari_Hoshizaki said:

I had one of the Visconti decks that U.S. Games distributed in 2000 with Atanassov as the artist...did yours come with a little white book or just black cards with instructions printed in white? I don't have the original box...Was the original publisher Lo Scarabeo or U.S. Games?

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Mari,
I have the three versions of the Visconti Gold that have been on the market, so hopefully I can answer your question.
The U. S. Games version was distributed in 1999. In 2000, it was Llewellyn that distributed the deck for Lo Scarabeo. Both of these versions have the same imagery, a LWB, and instructional cards. The only differences that I note is in the card stock and the edges; on the 2000 edition, the card edges are cut smoother and the cardboard is thinner. I also agree that the gold stamping is thinner on the Llewellyn edition.
The 2002 Llewellyn edition in the set did not come with any additional instructions, of course.
I prefer the old U. S. Games version, upside-down misprints and all! I like the bolder gold-foil and the beastier looking Devil.

Tauni

Huck:

Welcome aboard.

The question of whether the Visconti-Marziano-Besozzo cards can be considered a tarot is, as the author of the link says, a matter of definition. Most of the references to it I've seen call it a tarot predecessor. It's practically impossible to make any kind of final determination, since the whereabouts of the cards, if they still exist, are unknown, and I don't know of anyone who's actually seen Marziano's descriptive book. Somebody could do the world a great service by getting access to this book (it's in the Bibliotheque Nationale), translating it, and posting the contents on the web.

There's some question in my mind as to whether the cards with gods were trumps or court cards. However, the fact that a well-known contemporary player referred to these cards as a "trionfi" pack was new and very valuable information to me.

You can read what I've written about this deck at http://www.tarotseeker.com/Born.html

There's also an excellent article about the significance of these cards at Tom Tadfor Little's site, www.tarothermit.com/marziano.htm

Just a note that I was finally able to update my Visconti comparison page with scans from the new (2002) Lo Scarabeo deck and book set, thanks to Mari! This page compares the "replacement" cards (Devil and Tower) from all of the available Visconti (Pierpont Morgan-Bergamo) reproductions.

http://home.comcast.net/~felicityk/tarot/visconti/

Felicity

Hi Dave -

It's practically impossible to make any kind of final determination, since the whereabouts of the cards, if they still exist, are unknown, and I don't know of anyone who's actually seen Marziano's descriptive book. Somebody could do the world a great service by getting access to this book (it's in the Bibliotheque Nationale), translating it, and posting the contents on the web.

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I had a chance to look at the book for a few hours in Paris last March, and I can give a brief description of it. I had time to copy out only part of the introduction and the first chapter, on Jove. As for translating it, that will take some time Lothar has given a very fine summary, based on Pratesi's article, at his page.

It is small, approximately 21x14x2.5 cm. Bound in a red velvet cover that has faded considerably - it looks original to me: there are no signs that the book has been rebound, and it is in very good condition, not much studied over the centuries, I guess.

There are two treatises in Latin in the volume, each written in a similar fine hand, in blue ink, with illuminated capitals at each chapter/paragraph head (either blue and gold or green and gold). There are no illustrations anywhere in the volume.

(1) Tractatus de deificatione sexdecim heroum (fols. 1-31v)
(2) Paulus Vergerius de liberalibus studiis ac ingenues moribus [Concering Liberal Studies and Noble Morals].

The theme of the volume is virtue and education.
Number 2 is a text on education and its value, which is available in translation on the internet at http://history.hanover.edu/project.html . It was written around 1404, and was very popular in its time.

Number 1 is the text we are interested in. It varies between 16 and 17 lines per page, approximately 8 words per line, thus around 7600 words. Probably a few hundred less, given the spaces between paragraphs etc.

As Pratesi observed, it begins with a letter from Iacopo Antonio Marcello to Isabelle of Lorraine, wife of René, Duke of Anjou, King of Sicily, etc. It begins "Serenissimae Isabellae Reginae Augustissimae Iacobus Antonius Marcellus humiliter" -"To the most serene Isabella, most august Queen, Iacopo Antonio Marcello, humbly."

The introductory letter runs for three pages, from fols. 2v-4r. Dummett must not have read the text, for he incorrectly asserts that "there is no use of the word *triumphi* in reference to the cards" in the letter (Game of Tarot, 82). In fact, Iacopo Antonio Marcello does use the word "triumphum" in this manner in the letter, which Pratesi observed and Lothar reports on his site.

The text of Maritanus de Sancto Alosio (Marziano da Tortona) begins on fol. 4v. His introduction is well summarized by Pratesi, again presented on Lothar's site. Marziano himself does not use the word triumphum, nor even chartas. I was not able to read the whole book closely, but he does mention a particular triumph, that of Julius Caesar, on fol. 27r in the chapter on Hercules.

There's some question in my mind as to whether the cards with gods were trumps or court cards. However, the fact that a well-known contemporary player referred to these cards as a "trionfi" pack was new and very valuable information to me.

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I think that the gods were certainly seen as a class apart, with their own ranking. Marziano's introduction mentions this, and is summarized at Lothar's page.

You can read what I've written about this deck at http://www.tarotseeker.com/Born.html

There's also an excellent article about the significance of these cards at Tom Tadfor Little's site, www.tarothermit.com/marziano.htm

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Nice summary. The description of the birds is limited to saying what virtues they symbolize (For the most part it is clear, but the Phoenix with Riches is obscure - I haven't found out why yet) and that two run one way, two another, and that no suit is higher than another.

Tom's page is what alerted me to the existence of the Marziano's book.

Best always,

Ross

Though I had read Tom's linked page before, I had not paid it the attention it properly deserves.

If each of the suits was to be a bird, and the second suit was of riches, than to consider the Gold of the alchemists would have lead (pardon the pun) to the image of the Phoenix, which oft pictorially represented the accomplishment of the Great Work in its guise as arising out of the flames of transmutation - otherwise known known as the Philosopher's stone of the accomplishement of alchemical Gold.

Gold and riches are not too distant cousins in thought, so the Phoenix would have been more than an appropriate bird to represent the suit...

Whether, of course, this was the steps in considerations of the times remains another question.

jmd said:

If each of the suits was to be a bird, and the second suit was of riches, than to consider the Gold of the alchemists would have lead (pardon the pun) to the image of the Phoenix, which oft pictorially represented the accomplishment of the Great Work in its guise as arising out of the flames of transmutation - otherwise known known as the Philosopher's stone of the accomplishement of alchemical Gold.

Gold and riches are not too distant cousins in thought, so the Phoenix would have been more than an appropriate bird to represent the suit...

Whether, of course, this was the steps in considerations of the times remains another question.

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You have caused the hairs to rise on the back of my neck -

you must understand that I have researched phoenix symbolism for several weeks now, and have frequently come across its use as an alchemical symbol of the Great Work, although far more frequently it is to resurrection, and a type of Christ. But here we are dealing here (in the Sexdecim Heroum) with a deliberate classicism which avoids all references to Christian thought, without valorising the worst aspects of pagan deities. So I had to search for classical explanations for the Foenix (as Marziano spells it). The primary source is Ovid, Metamorphoses 15. Of course, Marziano (and Filippo) also knew Pliny, Tacitus and Seneca's references. This is only from the library at Pavia - other books were available.
I know of course that the Christian understanding would be a subtext to the symbol, even if not explicitly stated.

However, I deliberately blind myself to seeing such connections, convinced as I am that they are almost impossible to substantiate. But in this case we have the strong probability that Filippo believed in the transmutation of metals. There was a man who taught astrology and medicine at Pavia, Antonio Bernareggi; he received his license to practice medicine in Milan in 1422, there is every indication Filippo knew of him for a long time; Filippo later (1440) employed him as his physician. He wrote a text called "Ars sive doctrina de transmutatione metallorum." I personally believe it is likely that he was employed by Filippo to make gold, but of course as a philosopher Bernareggi was also aware of the subtler aspects of alchemy.

The dates happen to coincide - Marziano active until 1425, Antonio Bernareggi known in Milan from 1422.

Since the Phoenix does not have the highest position among the suits, or in the trumps - the Eagle is of course another alchemical symbol - I didn't make this obvious connection. But Marziano tells us that the suits are all equal. Duh!

But most importanty, I have never found a classical or medieval reference to the Phoenix symbolizing Riches. Only in the Chinese symbolism of the Phoenix does it symbolize "prosperity", but that is a longshot, although Marco Polo's "Travels" was probably known to them. So the only probable explanation at this point is that the Phoenix symbolized success in making gold, both spiritually, since this a treatise on Virtue, and physically, since the connection with riches in both senses only makes sense when the alchemical use of the symbol is understood.

Very nice. Thank you.

Ross

This forum is definitely the place to be right now. It's immeasurably enriched by the presence of Huck and Ross G. Caldwell.

Thank you, Ross G. Caldwell, for that extremely stimulating rundown of the contents of the Marziano da Tortona book. The full implications of that particular deck of cards, its accompanying "guidebook," and the introduction of the 5 x 14 theory here have opened my mind to new possibilities and the necessity for new directions in research. It's not for nothing that Tom Tadfor Little broached the question of whether Marziano might be the inventor of the tarot, although I think there's just as good a chance that the weird and misanthropic Duke Filippo had just as much to do with the initial conception of that deck as his secretary and chancellor.

My reading of all this new information leads me toward the conclusion that the tarot we now have resulted from an evolutionary and somewhat haphazard process, rather than a revolutionary and deliberate one. I tend to assume also that the iconic elements and the standard trump sequence of the 78-card tarot were only firmly cemented with the advent of the Marseille tradition, although this is a tenuous conclusion considering the very limited number of surviving cards from the 16th and 17th centuries.

But enough rambling. It's time to start taking some of this new information and putting it to the test of documentary confirmation. Sometimes I wish history didn't involve so much work and endless reading. As Butthead (of Beavis and Butthead) once remarked, "I hate words. If I wanted to read them, I'd go to school."

Thanks for the Phoenix reference

and sorry to side track you, but do you have eagle symbol information as well?
Is the Eagle reference for the Viscontis also related to Jove (Zeus) or Caeser? I'm still exploring Ovidian references and over time, hope to track eagle references down to the double eagle that eventually ended up in Napoleon's tax stamp for the Di Gumppenberg. It sits on the 'iron crown of lombardy'.
I'm also gathering notes on the Iron Crown of Lombardy, (supposedly a resulting nail from the Cruxifixion cross is woven into the band that crowned some of the Caesers or Holy Roman rulers that would include Italy as a teritory. Napolean insisted that it come to him and his son.
A good picture of it in recent medals is below.
http://www.austro-hungarian-army.co.uk/eko.htm
It's a skip of several centuries from the 1400s up to the 1800s, so my apologies if this isn't pertinent.
Mari H.

P.S. I'm looking at Latin and Roman sources, as it was said in my Renaissance history Latin was known by Este humanists and the 13th Marquis (Leonello) by the 1440s. The ability to read original Greek was still filtering through the population. Leonello, accomplished in Latin, was reproved for trying to comment on what a fad it was to learn about Greek treatises. The fictionalized account had elder statesman Feltrino Boiardo saying, "You will be soon be considered a barbarian yourself, Leonello if you continue to lecture us about the Greeks in Latin."

If my memory serves me correctly, the double-headed eagle is generally referred to as the Hapsberg eagle, though it has earlier symbolic use in the androgenous representations in alchemy, where the double headed and 'homme-femme' (male-female), again representing Mercury in its transformed state, was at times depicted by the double-headed eagle.

Later, it formed part of the heraldic emblem of the Tsars of Russia.

But as I said, I'm responding rather from memory than from research - as I too often do - and may need to be corrected.